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Full Version: PCN in Camden London, parked on kerb.
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VickyLin
Hi,
I parked with wheels on kerb on a Sunday morning in Camden London as I was very lost (my first time driving in London), so had to ask someone in newsagent for direction. I though I parked on kerb a bit not to obstruct the traffice but never thought CCTV enforcement is actually taking place in LONDON.... very frightening. Anyway, the video showed that my friend running back to the car before we drove off. I in fact made couple of u-turn at the same camera spot so video footage just few minutes before or after should also see me doing so. I'd really appreciate to know if there's any ground for the PCN to be cancelled.

Thanks in advance.
Incandescent
Well, from the photos on the PCN, you're bang to rights, (1) parked on the kerb - banned throughout London with no signs needed, and (2) on double-yellow lines that indicate no waiting/parking 24x7.

However, when did you receive this PCN, as it is dated 30th Oct, but today the day of your post here is 11th November ? PCNs through the post must be posted on the date of the PCN, and are assumed served, (delivered by the post service), 2 working days later.

So, have you ried to look at the video on-line as outlined on Page 2 of the PCN under the section headed "Photographic and Video Evidence" ?If it was me, I would submit an informal appeal stating that you were lost, unfamiliar with London, especially the law about parking on the kerb, and only stopped to allow your passenger out to get directions from a shop. This council do apparently accept there may be mitigating circumstances on Page 4 of the PCN, so there is not harm in testing their "humanity" with an appeal. London councils do tend to ruthlessness, but we have seen a recent PCN cancelled on mitigation this last week.
VickyLin
Here is the video btw View My Video

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sun, 11 Nov 2012 - 22:27) *
Well, from the photos on the PCN, you're bang to rights, (1) parked on the kerb - banned throughout London with no signs needed, and (2) on double-yellow lines that indicate no waiting/parking 24x7.

However, when did you receive this PCN, as it is dated 30th Oct, but today the day of your post here is 11th November ? PCNs through the post must be posted on the date of the PCN, and are assumed served, (delivered by the post service), 2 working days later.

So, have you ried to look at the video on-line as outlined on Page 2 of the PCN under the section headed "Photographic and Video Evidence" ?If it was me, I would submit an informal appeal stating that you were lost, unfamiliar with London, especially the law about parking on the kerb, and only stopped to allow your passenger out to get directions from a shop. This council do apparently accept there may be mitigating circumstances on Page 4 of the PCN, so there is not harm in testing their "humanity" with an appeal. London councils do tend to ruthlessness, but we have seen a recent PCN cancelled on mitigation this last week.


I have no idea when was PCN received because I was away for 2 weeks and just got back on Thursday. Only had a chance to go through all the mails this weekend and realised the horror letter after Halloween. I guess I will try to write to them and see if they could let me off on a compassion ground. Thanks for the reply.
EDW
Maybe there is a way out, I need to have member Hippo' look at the wording.


You are bang to rights, you want to gamble or pay half?

your choice.
Incandescent
Now I see why they've whalloped you for kerb parking, because a very clear board/alight activity has been shown that if you had been wholly on the road and on the DYLs would have allowed you to claim the board/alight exemption. So as EDW says, you are bang-to-rights, but..... as I said, you could write in with mitigation that you were unfamiliar with London and its ban on kerb parking, and were only waiting to pick up a friend who had gone for directions. It's a long shot, but EDW may find an error in the PCN text that is not in accordance with the legally mandated content, so wait a bit before coughing up. Do be aware, though, that arguing on PCN content involves going to adjudication for the full £130, not £65, so it is something of a gamble.
clark_kent
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sun, 11 Nov 2012 - 23:33) *
Now I see why they've whalloped you for kerb parking, because a very clear board/alight activity has been shown that if you had been wholly on the road and on the DYLs would have allowed you to claim the board/alight exemption.



No he wouldn't you can board or alight you cannot do both unless its done at the same time by different people, waiting for someone to go into a shop and return is not boarding and alighting.
Incandescent
Sorry to not be clear. When I say board/alight, I mean either-or, as it is the same exemption. Clearly in this case, the VVTV shows a boarding, but does not show any alighting.
VickyLin
I am writing a letter for informal appeal and having a question. If I didn't park on kerb (ie, no wheel on footpath), would I still get a PCN for parking on DYL for about a minute? VVTC didn't show any alighting but I presume they have a saved copy of the earlier footage from same camera, which would clearly show that a passenger alighting the car a minute ago.
EDW
QUOTE (VickyLin @ Tue, 13 Nov 2012 - 15:28) *
I am writing a letter for informal appeal and having a question. If I didn't park on kerb (ie, no wheel on footpath), would I still get a PCN for parking on DYL for about a minute? VVTC didn't show any alighting but I presume they have a saved copy of the earlier footage from same camera, which would clearly show that a passenger alighting the car a minute ago.



Yes.

The only way you can possibly win is a problem with the PCN.

I suggest you email them and say:

'Explain how the PCN also acts as a Notice to Owner, make reference to the exact law.'
VickyLin
QUOTE (EDW @ Tue, 13 Nov 2012 - 15:33) *
QUOTE (VickyLin @ Tue, 13 Nov 2012 - 15:28) *
I am writing a letter for informal appeal and having a question. If I didn't park on kerb (ie, no wheel on footpath), would I still get a PCN for parking on DYL for about a minute? VVTC didn't show any alighting but I presume they have a saved copy of the earlier footage from same camera, which would clearly show that a passenger alighting the car a minute ago.



Yes.

The only way you can possibly win is a problem with the PCN.

I suggest you email them and say:

'Explain how the PCN also acts as a Notice to Owner, make reference to the exact law.'


I have decided to write a sorry letter, would asking for explanation made me seen... less sorry?

hcandersen
C'mon.

There's no informal here, you either pay (presumably at the discount) or make reps. The 21-day period ends on 19 Nov.

A question is not reps.

If you make reps you will in all probability lose the opportunity to pay at the discount.

You cannot claim alighting and then boarding by only the same person - in this case it seems clear that this would be a euphemism for shopping.

You're gambling £65 on what you say are mitigating circumstances but from your account I cannot see what you plea would be here.

HCA
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