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sjpage
Hi Guys
Now i'm determined somehow to fight my Points and Fine
as you may know from my post 'I dammed if I do I dammed if I dont' i had little choice but to take the 3 points and £60 fine

Now if i want to appeal this can it be on my grounds
ie they can not give me more points or another fine except court costs

and if i can not be prosecuted further would it just be a case of me taking this to court and paying the court costs if i lose

would this be a better option for people as you would have allready received your fine and points so could be sure that the outcome could not get anyworse only better ?

Appeal on grounds of
1) Not informed of rights before signing (PACE)
2) Inaccuracy of detection devices
3) Placing of Such devices
4) Road signs
5) And all the ACPO rules that have been Broken
eg Hidden inside the Vehicle , On a bend , Using a radio whilst operating etc..
Mika
Stef,

Perhaps everything that you have listed needs to be tested in court. However, one may need to introduce the arguments during a trial and following a not guilty plea. Then the appeal in the High Court would be on points of law – just like Idris’ S172 appeal.

In your case, you ‘pleaded guilty’ to the offence and accepted the fine and points, so I don’t know how you go about appealing, but perhaps you need to request leave for a Judicial Review – John Josephs should know, because he is a District Judge
Observer
QUOTE (sjpage)
Now i'm determined somehow to fight my Points and Fine


Stef,

I would suggest there is no route to appeal a conviction AFTER being convicted by reason of pleading guilty to the offence. You have no grounds to challenge the evidence of the offence because it was not used.

I suppose you could bring a civil action against the police because they failed to caution you but on what grounds? Negligence can't arise unless there is a duty of care so you would have to show that a duty of care exists to a person (not in police custody) suspected of an offence.

There may be a "breach of statutory duty" argument - I don't reallly know. Even if there is and it was proved, would it be grounds to overturn a conviction on a "guilty" plea?

You're likely to end up throwing good money after bad.
sjpage
Thx Mika & Observer

though it wasn't exactly what I wanted to here Lol!

when I signed the NIP (in front of two officers) they
both wanted me to be sure as they didn't want me coming back
in a few months time , they seemed to insinuate there was
a period when I could change my mind
maybe Monster or Pulpculture may be able to shed some
light on this ?
Mika
Stef,

If you have only “signed the NIP”; and you haven’t accepted a Fixed Penalty or sent in your licence and fine, you can still request that a Magistrates’ Court deals with the mater. icon_idea.gif
sjpage
QUOTE (Mika)
Stef,

If you have only "signed the NIP"; and you haven't accepted a Fixed Penalty


Well this is a strange one actually :?

as I never signed anything accepting the fine or points
(should i have done icon_eek.gif )

as an officer had come round to my house
several times to interview me (wich I avoided)
I didn't want to push my luck

I just gave them a signed form
£60 cash and my license (in fact I don't think I was officially
offered this) then left as quick as possible before they
had chance to say 'sorry son it's to late see you in court'

2 weeks later license comes back with 3 points



-----------

on a different note the two coppers who took my
money and license did not take the opportunity
to explain PACE as I had requested in my letters
before they took my money
Mika
Stef,

I fear that ‘they’ may have “had you over” and have you considered making a formal complaint about the fact that you were never offered an explanation of your rights, even though you requested one in your letter? icon_idea.gif

I wonder what would have happened if you had said the following:

Police officer: "Who was the driver at the time?"

Stef: "That is a very interesting question; and before the voluntary confession under PACE is completed, I should be grateful if you would provide me with an explanation of my rights under PACE.......... (a very long time)....... thank you for your time and I will ensure that the confession is completed, and returned to you in due course."

The only way that I can see the police 'getting away' with what happened in your case, would be if they had not served a NIP/S172 notice before the meeting - in those circumstances it could be an offence not to answer the question/provide the information.

You are NOT refusing to provide the information; you would just like to obtain an understanding of your rights before the confession is completed. icon_wink.gif
sjpage
So do we need someone to start the ball rolling

ie
bring a case against the Police for failure to provide
information relating to PACE as JO said this does now
apply to the NIP and that on these grounds the right
to silence under PACE was denied

or something along those lines ?
Mika
Hi Stef,

In my opinion, we need to run each of the substantive issues during a trial and then appeal them to the High Court and beyond – just as Idris is doing.

I already have a court in mind to run the PACE argument. icon_wink.gif

However, taking civil action against the police for negligence at the same time, may also be a very good idea. icon_idea.gif
jeffreyarcher
Stef,
Notwithstanding what Mika and Observer have said about it perhaps being too late, because you have already pleaded (I realise that that itself appears to be in doubt) guilty, if an 'absolute' requirement for conviction has been broken, it may still be possible to have it overturned. An example of an 'absolute' requirement is the 14 day rule for NIPs. You cite faulty signs as an example. IMO, in certain cases, they too are 'absolute' requirements, although the ABD's signing expert seems to have a different opinion.
The term, "the accused shall not be convicted" seems, to me, to preclude conviction even if the accused pleads guilty. However, the services of a specialist lawyer would be required to a) confirm that and B) get it undone if I'm right.
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