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Jason1968
Hi all.

i have searched this forum but been unable to come up with the answer but was led here by previous searches for the answer on the www.

I am trying to find out if there is a "scale" to which local councils/boroughs have to abide by i.e. is there a maximum amount a council is allowed to fine for parking offecnces (PCNs) and does this amount change between London Boroughs (inner and outer).

I have probably been led up the garden path a bit but was told that there is a difference between inner and outer London scales, the maximum for an 01 offence being £130 for Inner London and £110 for Outer London.

Thanks

Jason1968
bama
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3487/contents/made
been amended since (of course the cost went up)
hit
Changes to Legislation
near top of screen and chase them through

for Bus lane tickets (different rules) start here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/27...gulation/4/made
Jason1968
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 28 Sep 2012 - 17:54) *
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3487/contents/made
been amended since (of course the cost went up)
hit
Changes to Legislation
near top of screen and chase them through

for Bus lane tickets (different rules) start here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/27...gulation/4/made


thanks for the link. I will now start cross referencing. I found out the website where the information came from

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/p...-ticket-appeals

click on the "typical parking fines" and it lists a scale.

A friend told me about the difference in fine amounts. I got a PCN on a bank holiday Monday (parking on a Sunday is ok dry.gif ) from an Outer London Borough and they have charged me £130. Im just trying to get all of the relevant info together as i contested it saying that i should not have been fined £130 and the council are saying that because they are a "London Borough" it is the higher level of charge. I go to the London Councils website and it clearly states that the Borough i am contesting agains (Bexley) is an outer London council yet when it comes to dishing out fines its a bit different sad.gif

Jason1968

hcandersen
If you've found the London Councils' web site, then you have the answers.

Penalty Charges are either higher or lower level and either upper or lower band (A and B). Banding is determined by London Councils on application by London enforcement authorities, whereas it is London Councils' role and task to determine the higher and lower level contraventions.

Although in general banding is borough-wide and inner London boroughs are predominantly Band A, there are exceptions as you'll see if you look at the banding maps on the LC website.

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policylob...t/Publications/


HCA
SchoolRunMum
'' I got a PCN on a bank holiday Monday (parking on a Sunday is ok)''

So let us help you appeal that properly then, if there are more grounds for appeal the experts here will spot them. Please post a pic of both sides of the PCN and a pic of the bay and signs.
Jason1968
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 28 Sep 2012 - 21:46) *
If you've found the London Councils' web site, then you have the answers.

Penalty Charges are either higher or lower level and either upper or lower band (A and B). Banding is determined by London Councils on application by London enforcement authorities, whereas it is London Councils' role and task to determine the higher and lower level contraventions.

Although in general banding is borough-wide and inner London boroughs are predominantly Band A, there are exceptions as you'll see if you look at the banding maps on the LC website.

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policylob...t/Publications/


HCA


wow, good find. There is so much information on so many different sites. I had a look at the maps and noticed that there is a small area within Bexley that is band A whereas most of the Borough is band B. Im guessing it is the town centre are that is the band A and i was parked about 1/2 mile outside.

cheers

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Fri, 28 Sep 2012 - 21:50) *
'' I got a PCN on a bank holiday Monday (parking on a Sunday is ok)''

So let us help you appeal that properly then, if there are more grounds for appeal the experts here will spot them. Please post a pic of both sides of the PCN and a pic of the bay and signs.


i did the first appeal based on the info above and it got rejected. The letter i got back did not state my case outlines correctly and the decisions to reject were "flowery" to say the least and did not explain or give good reason for why the notice should stand.

I am more than happy to go to the next stage and really make them work for the fine money.
ItchyCrakus
Start at the beginning is always a good point.

Post all the documentation you have in date order, scrubbed to remove only your personal details and see where it leads.
Jason1968
QUOTE (ItchyCrakus @ Sat, 29 Sep 2012 - 08:46) *
Start at the beginning is always a good point.

Post all the documentation you have in date order, scrubbed to remove only your personal details and see where it leads.


thankyou for slowing me down. This has really got a bee in my bonnet. A few deep breaths and then start at the beginning

Jason1968
ItchyCrakus
QUOTE (Jason1968 @ Sat, 29 Sep 2012 - 09:34) *
QUOTE (ItchyCrakus @ Sat, 29 Sep 2012 - 08:46) *
Start at the beginning is always a good point.

Post all the documentation you have in date order, scrubbed to remove only your personal details and see where it leads.


thankyou for slowing me down. This has really got a bee in my bonnet. A few deep breaths and then start at the beginning

Jason1968


And both sides of the documentation for completeness.
Jason1968
hi again.

been away for a while and have now got the scanner working and the ticket and letter scanned. These are the only two bits of communication thus far

i did not pay the fine and did not act on the letter they sent and i guess another letter will be in the post very soon.

Jason

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
SchoolRunMum
We do need to see all pages of all documents (just cover your name, address, car reg and PCN number).

That rejection letter must have a front page and also a 3rd page which tells you about your right to appeal when you get a Notice to Owner? We need to see those pages too please as they could be flawed.

Was your single yellow line in a CPZ? If so then look on the Council website and find out from the Zone map, the perimeter roads at the entrance to the Zone from any direction. If you are local then you should spend a happy(!) hour or so driviing round the edge of the zone taking photos of any entrance where there are not 2 CPZ signs (one either side of the orad unless it's under 5 metres wide in which case one sign on the left will suffice). Don't expect to see CPZ signs on every street, we are only takling the edges of the Zones which could be streets away, and don't get another ticket when taking the pics!

Often signs are missing or obscured and you can win on that point even if that wasn't the route you took.
Jason1968
hi there,

the attached scan is the front page.

over and above the original PCN, i have received one, one page letter which i have scanned. There were no other bits of paper or info sheets included.

When you say CPZ you mean the white background signs that say "Controlled Zone" with a red "No Entry" symbol and specific times????

I am not local but it is where my kids live so im round that way often enough

thankyou for the help so far.

Click to view attachment

hcandersen
Dear Mr Council,

Since I received your notice of rejection of my informal representations I have been investigating your response regarding penalty charges which I found unconvincing. My research has shown that your reasoning in respect of my claim that you are not empowered to demand a penalty of £130 for the stated contravention in the stated location is flawed. I do not dispute that the penalty charge which relates to my alleged contravention is "Higher Level" but this in itself does not mean that £130 is the applicable amount of the penalty. My investigations have taken me beyond the extended period of discount.

I would request that you reconsider your response to this aspect of my informal representations and would ask that you extend the discount until you have replied.

Hugs and Kisses



HCA
SchoolRunMum
Yep those are CPZ signs so if you can find a missing or obscured set - which is quite common when people go and look! - then that's a strong point of appeal.

ON the rejection letter I can see a mistake that you could cite when you draft your formal appeal. Although I think I may be right that rejection letters for informal challenges do not have to follow a set format, they do have to get the info right and I think this is wrong:

'if payment of £130 is not made before the last day...'

misstates the true deadline by one day as it should be:

'if payment of £130 is not made on or before the last day...'



HTH
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