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Full Version: Islington PCN for parking in telephone bay with broken pay and display machine
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
badcar8
Well, as above and I sent this email as an informal appeal which explains everything





Afternoon,

I would like to appeal PCN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

The background is; I was visiting my girlfriend as I was passing through Islington and she was ill but still at work so I was trying to cheer her up. I parked in a space next to the pay and display meter (picture attached). I believed the parking space was pay and display as there was a prominent Islington pay and display machine next to the space which said "CONDITIONS OF USE" "1. A valid ticket must be displayed. Insert coins and purchase ticket only at time of parking". It did not mention that the space was telephone parking only.

The machine was unable to take my money and there was no machine near able to take my money. I presumed the machines had been vandalised and having made a good effort at paying to comply with the insert coins and get ticket requirement I attached a note to my car and planned to use the space for less than half an hour so as to be back if the machine were to be fixed. I took a picture of the pay and display machine at the time of parking to demonstrate the machine was out of order when I arrived.

I returned within half an hour to find a PCN attached to my vehicle. The CEO was still in the area and we had a chat, he was a pleasant chap. I explained the machine was out of order and had tried to pay and he told me it was a pay by phone only area. I said this wasn't clear and showed him the instructions on the machine, he agreed that these were misleading.

Please would you cancel the PCN as the pay and display machine is misleading and I tried to pay the fee. This is my first PCN as I always pay for tickets and thought of myself as following instructions. I now know that all Islington is pay by phone only so can I can ignore the pay and display machines.

regards

Name removed

And I got reply

Dear Mr XXX



Penalty Charge Notice No. XXX Date of Issue 24/08/2012 at 11:28

Location of Contravention Tabernacle Street, EC2



Thank you for your email regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice which was recently received at this office.



The PCN was issued because the vehicle was parked without payment of the charge.

I note that you parked almost adjacent to the sign indicating that payment must be made by phone. The sign is pictured above and I am satisfied that the instructions are very clear. Nowhere on the sign does it refer to paying at a pay and display machine. Even if payment was accepted at the machine and it was out of order, drivers are not permitted to park without payment. An alternative machine or method of payment must be sought, even if that means moving the vehicle to another parking place.



Therefore, as the PCN was issued correctly, the penalty charge will be upheld. Payment is now due, but I have decided that we can accept the discounted amount of £40.00 provided we receive that before 30 September 2012. Please bear in mind that on that date the charge will increase to £80.00.



If you wish to continue to contest the matter, the next stage is that a Notice to Owner will be sent to the person responsible for the penalty charge. This is a necessary legal step and further correspondence will only delay this process.



I am afraid you are unlikely to get a further opportunity to make discounted payment. However, the Notice to Owner will establish liability for the Penalty Charge Notice and the grounds under which representations may be made. If representations are made at this stage and they are rejected, there will be the right of appeal to the independent adjudicator at the Parking & Traffic Appeals Service.



You can make a credit or debit card payment on - 020 7527 2000 - at any time. You can also pay on line at www.islington.gov.uk. If you prefer to pay by cheque, please make it payable to LB Islington and send it to the address below. Please write the PCN number on the back of the cheque. You may also send postal orders (quoting the PCN number).




Yours sincerely

XXXX

I also asked the council for the TMO that covers this space and after an email exchange received these (hopefully the attachments work)

They do not mention that there is telephone parking and say the council shall install and maintain in proper working order at least one ticket parking meter in
the vicinity of the parking place referred to in Schedule 2 to this Order;

Is there an easy way to find if other TMOs apply as there must be a telephone parking PCN.

Also I have tried to view the photos online but they have not worked, the first I saw was in the email response received, does this affect my appeal?

thanks

Is the parking ticket valid?
hcandersen
We don't know what you requested from the council as you've not posted your request.

Assuming you requested the TMO for the location of your alleged contravention, you've not received it. Or if you have it's b******s as it does not contain any restrictions. I do hope that Lewisham don't think that they can make the restrictions under the guise of placing traffic signs - tut, tut.

So where are we?

You acknowledge parking without paying
The council claim you were parked in a PBP bay.
The council state that you parked next to a PBP sign.
The TMOs supplied do not make restrictions regarding paying by phone.
You may pay at discount until 30 Sept.

Forget the ticket m/c, I don't think this is relevant unless your parking place was not PBP. But the council claim it was. And your response is......? And do we have pics?

Can we get back to evidence and leave your understandings to one side?



HCA
badcar8
Yes, I did request the TMO for the location of the alleged contravention and the two PDFs are what I received.







Thanks for the help. D
shuffleboy
Mate i feel for you. This is such an easy trap to fall for. Why have a ticket machine right next to the sign, yet only pay by phone as the option? also, i think the sign should say "pay by phone only". Its just a trap. they know this and I think you will win at adjudication for poor quality of signage. Stick it to those jerks!!! Im no expert though, so just wait till the serious posters on here get to work, they will dominate your case for you. good luck!!!
hcandersen
GSV's out of date, so we don't know what lies to the right of the car. But if we assume that it's parking bays which are an extension of the bays we can see, then the m/c has no function and should be covered/removed.

But if it has a function and there are pay and display bays to the right of the car, then the parking place must be discontinuous because it has 2 distinct restrictions. Therefore, the road markings must reflect this and there should be double transverse lines within the bay.

A long shot of the whole parking place is needed, but from what you say you have clear grounds of appeal in that the m/c gives a driver a clear and legitimate expectation that P&D is acceptable.

HCA
badcar8
Sorry, should have posted all the photos I have, but didn't want to deluge the forum. Here is the rest of what I have.

The m/c had been made inoperative by the council by covering the place to insert coins so even though it looked like it was working it was not valid for any space. It did not have any sign or other indication that it was not in use.

The space next to where I was parked is marked "car club only" on the road I think.

Thanks for your help on this, I'm 50:50 as to whether to pay or not, but also like to put this info for others should they be in the same situation









Now that's everything I've got
Incandescent
The council are being mendacious, (as usual). This really needs to go to adjudication, but is the OP willing ?
bama
check there is a 'car club'. to use the bays
I know one town that has car club bays and no car club so no possible use for the bays - apart from issuing PCNs to anyone that parks in them...
badcar8
Yesterday I paid the fine at the lower rate and as such I have given up this fight. Thanks for your help guys, I hope we can learn from my failure.
Hippocrates
Shame, as the PCN is defective re 3(2)(b) of the Appeals Regulations.
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