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monk1


I was wondering if someone can tell me if I can do any more to reduce my PCN. I was issued one outside my house for stopping on a single yellow line, but only found this out when I received a letter saying I hadn't paid the ticket in 14 days ( £55.00) and therefore the full amount was now due ( £110). I never received this ticket as it wasn't on my windscreen when I returned to the vehicle, I have seen the photos so know that one was issued and sent an appeal to the council saying that I accept the £ 55 fee and will pay it but don't agree with the £ 110 as I never knew a ticket even existed. They have rejected this saying that once the ticket is issued it's not their responsibility what happens to it even if someone else takes it off or the wind blows it away. It is now going to an adjudicator, whats the normal outcome for lost tickets like this, I have accepted the original fine I'm just arguing that I could never have paid a ticket I didn't know existed. Is there any more info I can provide or legal stand I can take to keep this as a £ 55 fine.

I appreciate anyones comments on this, to me this means a warden can issue a ticket , take a photo, then take the ticket back off the windscreen and we're stuck with a full fine, surely this can't be allowed and the council can see some common sense ( or is that wishful thinking)

Again anything you can tell me would be a great help
Chaseman
There have been some reports of PAs doing just this. I don't see how one can protect oneself from this except by virtue of a lot of people complaining about the same thing and the LA realising that it's always the same PA who is issuing the disappeared tickets. If the LA has rejected a formal appeal then there is nothing to be lost by going to the adjudicator. The fine cannot be increased. I am not sure what line adjudicators normally take on such issues and in fact whether they consider they have jurisdiction - after all you are not arguing about whether the offence occurred, just whether the LA should or should not accept a discounted payment in arrears. The adjudicator cannot force a LA to exercise discretion, but he can recommend it.

It would also help if you posted up the NTO so that members can determine whether there are any procedural errors in it.
interlog
You said you seen the photos and that it was issued. Unfortunate as it may seem, that is the end of that matter as far as the ticket you never received is concerned. Council has proved service of the PCN by means of the photo and no Adjudicator will go against the Council on this.

As suggested, post up the NTO.
Observation1
I'd suggest you appeal the PCN saying exactly what you have said here and see what happens. Sometimes they are lenient (especially if you've not had a PCN before). It's a 'try and see' excercise to be honest - you might just win and they reduce the charge.

'Chaseman' - Why, dare I ask would a CEO photograph and remove the PCN, once issued it is of no interest to them?
M
Korting
Both my wife and my wife's uncle have been in these situations.

QUOTE (monk1 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2012 - 11:44) *
They have rejected this saying that once the ticket is issued it's not their responsibility what happens to it even if someone else takes it off or the wind blows it away.

I won my case, the adjudicator acknowledged that the PCN wasn't stuck on properly and was about to blow off even as the PA took the photo!

QUOTE (monk1 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2012 - 11:44) *
I appreciate anyones comments on this, to me this means a warden can issue a ticket , take a photo, then take the ticket back off the windscreen and we're stuck with a full fine

It happened to my wife's uncle and he took it to adjudication and won.

QUOTE (monk1 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2012 - 11:44) *
Surely this can't be allowed and the council can see some common sense ( or is that wishful thinking)

The day you see a Council or Civil Servant using common sense will be a truly historic day!
hcandersen
You've seen the pics, we haven't. We can only presume they prove service of the PCN. The other example given is not the norm, in fact it's anything but because adj's almost invariably accept a CEO's word that a PCN was served unless the driver can offer evidence that they returned immediately following service and can challenge the CEO's version of events with relevant evidence, or pics suggest that service was improper.

IMO, you will need more argument than the one you've set out here so we must see the NTO, your reps and their NOR.

HCA
Korting
In my case (or rather my wife's) I stated that it was their duty to ensure that the PCN was properly attached to the vehicle, the could for instance have placed it under the windscreen wiper which would have ensured that the forces of nature did not remove it.

The Adjudicator found 'on this narrow point' that the Council had failed to attach the PCN properly and therefore cancelled the PCN. I'll try and dig it out later
monk1
Thank you to everyone that has commented on this. I have uploaded the NTO and picture they had taken. It's clear from the picture that the PCN is stuck to the windscreen and not under the wiper so maybe like Michael 194 they may realise it probably got blown off the vehicle... we live in hope anyway. The only issue I now have is that being unable to attend the hearing how can I add this evidence for the adjudicator to see?
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