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Mellotron
Left car half in motorcycle bay, half in correct resident permit parking bay (pay yearly for my parking permit).

My excuse was that I arrived home at 1.30am after a long day, this specific motorcycle bay is NEVER used by Motorcycles (have lived here a year and not once seen a single motorcycle in it, they use the corner bays designated to them). Said bay could easily hold around 25 motorcycles, and as mentioned I have never seen a single motorcycle in there, so there is no question of me obstructing anyone's way.

Came down from my flat at about 11am to find car towed away. No signs warning this could happen, no note left, nothing.

Think I may have been a victim of bad timing as it was the same weekend as Pride Festival, where I'm guessing these towing people clean up, plenty of tourists around who would not know where they could park, in Brighton it is incredibly tough to find free street parking.

Have the appeal form, what's my next step?

Sorry if I've missed anything obvious from the forum rules, had a look through everything before posting.
bama
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...md=cat&id=1

need pics/scans of all the docs - scrubbed of personal details. leave dates and times in
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=16
Mellotron
Is there a specific period in which I can appeal, and has this elapsed? I.e., is it still worth me chasing this up? I have had an unbelievably busy couple of weeks.
bama
good grief the daily charges will be racked up !

post ALL the docs ASAP (and pics of location/signage)
Mellotron
QUOTE (bama @ Tue, 25 Sep 2012 - 16:50) *
good grief the daily charges will be racked up !

post ALL the docs ASAP (and pics of location/signage)


Daily charges? I paid the tow charge immediately, I had no choice. Will get the pics/docs up tomorrow.
bama
QUOTE
I paid the tow charge immediately


Phew ! (you didn't mention that you tease you smile.gif )
post ALL the docs - anonymised but leave all dates and times in
hcandersen
Get a grip. You can't play fast and loose with time, however busy you might be.

You have a period of 28 days beginning with the date on which you recovered your vehicle in which to make your reps - and as we sit here we don't know whether that period might have elapsed already because we don't know the date on which you recovered your car. This could all be a waste of time.

Post the docs and specify the date on which you recovered your veh.

HCA
Mellotron
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 26 Sep 2012 - 08:13) *
Get a grip. You can't play fast and loose with time, however busy you might be.

You have a period of 28 days beginning with the date on which you recovered your vehicle in which to make your reps - and as we sit here we don't know whether that period might have elapsed already because we don't know the date on which you recovered your car. This could all be a waste of time.

Post the docs and specify the date on which you recovered your veh.

HCA


"Get a grip"? This isn't a war situation, it's just a car towing, settle down! Date PCN was served - 2/9/12 - so might be running it a bit tight now.

I recovered the vehicle same day. I paid the tow charge as I had no choice, had to pay it to release my vehicle.
Mellotron
Ok,

PCN:



Receipt:



Probably slightly overzealous with the blacking out of personal info, let me know if I need to uncover any details.
bama
and the back of the PCN
SchoolRunMum
The PCN seems to be OK on the front but you have not shown the back? Nor the other paperwork from the pound, the appeals sheets & info? Could be flawed.

As you will need to appeal in the next 48 hours you would be best perhaps to copy some text from other towing threads which have their draft appeal letters showing on their thread, and where the posters here have added comments & said the appeal is OK. Make sure it's all relevant to your case though! Why not read a few towing threads there in the first few pages, to see what to quote in an appeal. Look at other threads though where the heading shows the word 'removed' or 'towed'. A quick crib of other people's wording is worth a couple of hours browsing. Post what you find here in a draft asap.

To start you off, here's two threads, both winning full refunds, both with very good (different) draft appeals about disproportionate (de minimis) towaways:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...68584&st=40

and the thread by the user n101 has a good quote from the Chief Adjudicator about towing only being a last resort and that a PCN alone can be sufficient to convey the contravention:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=70114

And does your appeal paperwork (not yet seen on here) mention any appropriate period to elapse before a vehicle can be towed? As in this case where it stipulates 30 mins grace but the towaway was quicker?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t72951.html

And does the BH website have a towing Code of Practice or any customer charter about PCN enforcement (which may include stuff about towaway priorities which contradicts what happened to you).

You absolutely and definitely MUST appeal this within 28 days which is to be received by Saturday at the very latest . It's a no brainer because you have nothing to lose at all as you have already paid.
Mellotron
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 26 Sep 2012 - 19:33) *
The PCN seems to be OK on the front but you have not shown the back? Nor the other paperwork from the pound, the appeals sheets & info? Could be flawed.


Thank you very, very much for the detailed and helpful reply. Regarding the above, I'm looking at the PCN, and on the back it just has printed instructions for payment etc. Nothing handwritten on it, same regards the receipt. It's just the appeal form, and a blank one at that.

I didn't receive ANY other paperwork from the City Car Pound. I am 100% certain of that.

I will proceed with my letter as per the rest of your post. Thanks again.

Jamie
SchoolRunMum
QUOTE (Mellotron @ Thu, 27 Sep 2012 - 10:15) *
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 26 Sep 2012 - 19:33) *
The PCN seems to be OK on the front but you have not shown the back? Nor the other paperwork from the pound, the appeals sheets & info? Could be flawed.


Thank you very, very much for the detailed and helpful reply. Regarding the above, I'm looking at the PCN, and on the back it just has printed instructions for payment etc. Nothing handwritten on it, same regards the receipt. It's just the appeal form, and a blank one at that.

I didn't receive ANY other paperwork from the City Car Pound. I am 100% certain of that.

I will proceed with my letter as per the rest of your post. Thanks again.

Jamie



We know it has printed stuff only, and big gaps, but they may have missed something that should have been given to you. The back of the PCN may look standard small print but not always...

But in view of your time scale I would put a draft appeal together using the 2 cases I have linked, removing any reference to dropped kerbs (as that wasn't your contravention). Leave in all stuff about 'de minimis' (a mere trifle, slight oversight), the stuff about it being disproportionate & unnecessary, the quotes from the Chief Adjudicator about towing only being a last resort after individual consideration of circs, the stuff about whether a Council actually has the right to remove a car which isn't abandoned, and ask why they could not simply have moved the car into a nearby bay as they could see you were a resident from the permit. They could have just moved it if there was a bay free. And add any other personal appeal stuff you want, e.g. if you have never had a PCN before say so, give it the personal touch.

The important priority is to get it sent now! But ultimately they will probably reject and then it will be up to an adjudicator, with no risk to you at all, no costs.

Good luck, do it before the weekend as we'll be busy at the Amex on Saturday won't we! You know me from another forum...smile.gif
Mellotron
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 27 Sep 2012 - 11:08) *
QUOTE (Mellotron @ Thu, 27 Sep 2012 - 10:15) *
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 26 Sep 2012 - 19:33) *
The PCN seems to be OK on the front but you have not shown the back? Nor the other paperwork from the pound, the appeals sheets & info? Could be flawed.


Thank you very, very much for the detailed and helpful reply. Regarding the above, I'm looking at the PCN, and on the back it just has printed instructions for payment etc. Nothing handwritten on it, same regards the receipt. It's just the appeal form, and a blank one at that.

I didn't receive ANY other paperwork from the City Car Pound. I am 100% certain of that.

I will proceed with my letter as per the rest of your post. Thanks again.

Jamie



We know it has printed stuff only, and big gaps, but they may have missed something that should have been given to you. The back of the PCN may look standard small print but not always...

But in view of your time scale I would put a draft appeal together using the 2 cases I have linked, removing any reference to dropped kerbs (as that wasn't your contravention). Leave in all stuff about 'de minimis' (a mere trifle, slight oversight), the stuff about it being disproportionate & unnecessary, the quotes from the Chief Adjudicator about towing only being a last resort after individual consideration of circs, the stuff about whether a Council actually has the right to remove a car which isn't abandoned, and ask why they could not simply have moved the car into a nearby bay as they could see you were a resident from the permit. They could have just moved it if there was a bay free. And add any other personal appeal stuff you want, e.g. if you have never had a PCN before say so, give it the personal touch.

The important priority is to get it sent now! But ultimately they will probably reject and then it will be up to an adjudicator, with no risk to you at all, no costs.

Good luck, do it before the weekend as we'll be busy at the Amex on Saturday won't we! You know me from another forum...smile.gif


Oh hello you! How spooky. Certainly will be busy on Saturday, can't wait. Will be sending this today to give it the best chance of getting there in time. Will post up my draft in a bit, thanks very much for the ongoing advice.

Is it worth mentioning the huge empty motorcycle bay that is never, ever used? Or not? I was never in any danger of being in anyone's way, or taking up anyone's parking, but if this is all just opinion I'm guessing I should leave it out?
Mellotron
Just a quick one - at this stage should I simply fill out their provided appeal form and return, or complete a letter? Or both?
Mellotron
Have sent appeal form back First Class today, along with a 2 page letter, will copy and paste up in a bit.
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