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aim2please
Hi,

Have a look at this one!

I received a PCN from Sheffield City Council for being in a bus lane on July 16 and paid the requested sum (£30) online July 17, the amount was debited from my account on July 18. I have the transaction reference number from the Council's online payment system.

Today (September 1) I received another PCN and the amount has increased to £90. This is obviously a bug in their system but it has caused me some distress - while being on holiday I had to go through my bank statements, the Council's payment confirmation etc. to ensure there was nothing wrong with the transaction.

Wondering how best I can fight it back / make sure the Council fixes its IT systems?


Cheers

bama
we need to see the PCN - with the dates and times left in. obscure personal detail on the pic/scan
aim2please
Hi bama, PCN and payment details attached. I could not find the original letter - might have misplaced it - but obtained those details from the Council's website by providing the PCN number.
Bagshot
You now wait for an order for recovery. This will arrive with a witness statement. You complete the witness statement using the tick box, Penalty charge has already been paid, you add no other detail and attach no supporting documents. You send off the witness statement.

Sheffield will probably then try to get out of the process but they can't. It has to go to adjudication.

Keep a note of every minute you spend. Any bank charges, any costs associated with the witness statement. EVERYTHING.

You win.

With luck you get the original penalty charge cancelled and your £30 refunded, and you get your costs paid by Sheffield.

For now, though. DO nothing. Wait. Do NOT contact the council. They have dug themselves a hole and there is no way out for them other than the above. Sit tight and don't stress.
Friendly71
What an incompetent council (there's a surprise!), though Haringey in north London would easily win in a 'who's the worst?' competition. Hope you get this all sorted out. Bagshot's advice seems excellent.

In case you wish to hide the PCN number, it is still showing in big bold letters near the top of the screen (in the title) in your second image.
EDW
A charge cert. issued when no payment is due amounts to an unlawful demand for money backed with the threat of court action.

This is an impropriety(an improper act) by the council and is wholly unreasonable.

The adjudicator should cancel the PCN and give you costs.

Lucky you smile.gif
aim2please

Thanks Bagshot, will do as you suggest. Updates later... :-)


@Friendly71 - thanks! I had noticed that too, blacked out now
bama
The payment was made against exactly the same PCN number ? ?
aim2please

Yes, I've confirmed it many times over...
bama
great - then do as advised.
Use small claims rates for costs and compile the costs schedule now.
Neil B
Nearly - but just a couple of amendments --
QUOTE (Bagshot @ Sat, 1 Sep 2012 - 20:05) *
You now wait for an order for recovery. This will arrive with a witness statement. You complete the witness statement using the tick box, Penalty charge has already been paid, you add no other detail and attach no supporting documents. You send off the witness statement.
For this it will be a 'Statutory Declaration'; same as the WS Bagshot describes except it will need witnessing. Get it witnessed for free at your local County Court. Do NOT sign the form until in the presence of the Court Officer.


Sheffield will probably then try to get out of the process but they can't. It has to go to adjudication.
NO, I don't think they can. I don't think a Stat Dec made 'in time' can be opposed; That is, if made in the 14 or 21 days (can'r be arsed to look it up) the OfR will allow.


- and that is, as has been said, WHEN you get that OfR.
Bagshot
Thanks Neil, I stand corrected, Witness Statement for parking tickets, Statutory Declaration for Bus Lanes.

It isn't a trivial difference. Whereas the Witness Statement has a box for Penalty already paid, the Stat Dec does not. The Stat Dec has only three grounds and already having paid is NOT one of them!!!

Help!
Bagshot
It is quiet on here at weekends. I am hoping that one of the eagles will pick this up on Monday. As I see it there a two choices.

1. Contact the council and tell them where to go. It should work but it is much less fun.

2. Instead of filing the Stat Dec that they send you, file a TE9 (Witness Statement) and see where it gets you. I have a feeling that they will have to process it.

Out of my depth. I know what I would do, but I'm me.
Neil B
QUOTE (Bagshot @ Sun, 2 Sep 2012 - 10:19) *
It isn't a trivial difference. Whereas the Witness Statement has a box for Penalty already paid, the Stat Dec does not. The Stat Dec has only three grounds and already having paid is NOT one of them!!!

Help!
Ditto! Good reminder, ta.

QUOTE (Bagshot @ Sun, 2 Sep 2012 - 10:30) *
It is quiet on here at weekends. I am hoping that one of the eagles will pick this up on Monday. As I see it there a two choices.

1. Contact the council and tell them where to go. It should work but it is much less fun.

2. Instead of filing the Stat Dec that they send you, file a TE9 (Witness Statement) and see where it gets you. I have a feeling that they will have to process it.

Out of my depth. I know what I would do, but I'm me.

No, can't agree to number 2 Bags. I think submitting such a legal statement covered by entirely different legislation would be dangerous.
I have an alternative suggestion for anyone to comment on.

The Regs say, as you've said --

(2) The statutory declaration must state (as the case may be) that the person making it—

(a)did not receive the penalty charge notice in question;
(b)made representations under regulation 9 but had no response to those representations; or
©appealed to the adjudicator under regulation 14 but had no response to the appeal.


I think we can bend the rules without actually going outside the law. So, yes, contact the Council but make it in writing - urgently and make sure you head this 'Representations against PCN xxxxxxxxxx.' - on the grounds - PCN paid, obviously. Do this NOW; It does not matter that it is late - because they 'may' consider late reps in law.

Then -

When the OfR arrives you can truthfully complete it for reason (b) above. wink.gif Nice huh? biggrin.gif
Bagshot
I certainly couldn't have recommended action number 2, though it is what I would do in the circumstances. Risky and rebellious, just like most things in my life.

Nice solution Neil. Ticks all the boxes. The government website does say that for a bus lane PCN if you get a Charge Certificate after paying it that you should contact the council. They will almost certainly halt the process and that will be the end of it. That takes all the fun out of it but never mind.

Then as Neil says, if they are silly enough to send you an Order for Recovery you can fill in the Stat Dec.

Nice one Neil, well done.

aim2please
Right, so got an apology from the council :


QUOTE
Dear S*****,

Further to your email, please accept my apologies for the delay in matter, however I am pleased to confirm that the issue has now been resolved.

The finance team have managed to locate your payment and it has been transferred to your case which is now showing as fully paid - see below.

<screenshot>

Parking Services deeply regrets and apologises for any inconvenience caused by this matter; the cause of the problem is still being looked in to.

I trust that this e-mail brings the matter to a satisfactory conclusion, however if you do have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact our department.

Kind Regards

Mrs * *****
Parking Services
P O Box 3830
Sheffield S1 9AQ
(0114 2736158 Fax - 0114 2053000



I'm now wondering if I can report it somewhere as a retribution to the pain they caused me? cussing.gif

Incandescent
YOu could write to the head of the council, or the councillor in charge of parking. The e-mail apology is insufficient in my view, a hard-copy letter should have been sent from the official in charge of parking.

Interesting that Parking Services covers bus lane penalties !
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