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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] NIP - Temporary 30mph (Road Works) - Moving House. Advice?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2012
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A4231 Barry Docks Link Road, Barry (Road Works)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Me and my partner have recently moved house into the housing estate just off the A4231. We had been spending the week moving lots of stuff back and forth to the new house in my van.

The road is normally a 50mph road, and my NIP states that the road is now temporariliy 30mph due to roadworks. I believe the van was shot by a camera out of the back of a van on the other side of the road (facing the van), during a trip moving stuff into the new house. The recorded speed on the NIP is stated to be 46mph. A number of friends and family have since said they tied where the van was parked.

As both me and my partner are insured on the van, I cannot say with any confidence who was driving at the time of the reported offence. We had both been using it to ferry stuff back and forth, and collect furniture etc.

I currently have a CU80 on my licence from 2 years ago, and my partner has a clean licence.

I have never received an NIP before, so I would appreciate any advice on what my next / best move should be.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 09:22:42 +0000
Write and ask for any photos to help identify the driver but do not ask for evidence, a front on shot will probably have a reasonable shot of the driver as well, then simply name the correct driver.
You could ask the County Council Highways Dept for a copy of the temporary Traffic Regulation Order to check that it is in order and covers the particular part of the road where you are alleged to have been speeding.

Also, write back asking for any available photographs to assist in identifying the driver, making no mention of proof or evidence which you are not entitled to at this stage. Most forces will send these or direct you to a website. Then you should be able to confirm it was your van and see if there is any indication of who was driving. If you wash off the details and post it up here following the directions in the FAQs, people will be able to tell you if it is a clean ping.

This does not stop the time running on the 28 days you have to respond. Failing to identify the driver is a much more serious offence than speeding, so do not risk that.

If the limit was properly established, it was a clean ping and the photo does not show clearly who was driving, you have two options:

(1) Work out who was driving by other means, or failing that take your best guess.

(2) Reply offering the names of both possible drivers and explain why you are unable to determine which of you was driving at the time in question. This will almost certainly result in a summons for failure to provide driver details and you will have to persuade a court that you could not, with reasonable diligence, have identified the driver. This is not impossible, but is increasingly difficult as too many people have tried to get off speeding tickets in the past by using this defence, and magistrates have become highly suspicious of claims that two grown adults cannot remember a journey they made a few days previously. If you cannot show that you were genuinely unable to identify the driver, the penalty is 6 points, a fine of several hundred pounds, and an MS90 code on your driving licence which will make getting insurance difficult and expensive for the next 5 years - much more so than a minor speeding offence. Insurance companies see the code, and wonder what you did that was so terrible that 6 points and £500 was a better option than owning up to it...

Given the disparity in the penalties, in these circumstances taking your best guess is usually the most pragmatic option

Just to add to the comprehensive replies already - that speed should result in a fixed penalty (3 points/£60). However, if it ends up at court then both the points and fine will be higher. That speed is not eligible for a speed awareness course though.
Thankyou for the responses all, much appreciated
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