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rpo
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2012
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A1198 HILTON
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - heading south on A1198, (national speed limit applies - 60?). Dark coloured van was parked on grass verge on my right. The rhs wheels were on the road and I didn't clock initially it as a camera van. This caused a large van to pull out into the middle of the road but not dangerously so. As we passed each other I realised it was a camera van and checked my speedo (about 65) and satnav (63). A little surprised to get the NIP saying clocked at 65.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 13:13:06 +0000
mrh3369
What class of vehicle were you driving? Car, van ect...
The Rookie
Enforcement in a 60 usually starts at 68 so 65 would normally see no action taken.

Was the rear of the van facing you as you approached? If so he may have 'pinged' you long before you were even aware a van was there!
rpo
Thanks for the responses; to answer your questions:

I was driving a Peugeot Partner commercial van and the front of the camera van was facing me as I approached.
3phase278
QUOTE (rpo @ Thu, 16 Aug 2012 - 16:39) *
I was driving a Peugeot Partner commercial van and the front of the camera van was facing me as I approached.


On long straight roads like that, they can 'ping' you a fair distance after you passed them - some devices are type approved up to 999m away, so chances are you sped up again as you were receding in the distance not realising they were still targeting you.

Fast NIP and don't miss the 28 days to reply, but you can ask them for 'any pictures to help identify who was driving' before returning the s.172 - they may send you some and these pics will almost certainly give you the distance you were 'clocked' at.

You need to look into the classification of that van ref speed limits, it could well be you were limited to 50 - that would make sense if they are claiming 65, as it is unusual for a car to get 65 in a 60 nsl limit. If your van is restricted to 50 then you are looking at a cofp with 3 points and £60
Aretnap
From a quick Google...

http://www.whatvan.co.uk/index.php?option=...0&Itemid=71

QUOTE
Gross payload capacity is 851kg with a gross weight of 2,205kg. This means that the Peugeot Partner is subject to light commercial speed limits rather than the higher ones that apply to passenger cars.

You should check that this is correct, but if it is then your speed limit on an NSL single carriageway is 50mph. That explains why you were "done" for 65mph.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTrans...RE=speed_limits
AntonyMMM
This is going to depend on the exact model you have - the magic figure is 2 tonnes maximum laden weight. If yours is above that, the limit for you would be 50 , which would explain the NIP at 65. Peugeot Partners seem to come in various styles and carrying capacity which put some under 2T and some over.

Do you know the exact spec and load capacity of the van ?

Logician
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Thu, 16 Aug 2012 - 17:09) *
This is going to depend on the exact model you have - the magic figure is 2 tonnes maximum laden weight. If yours is above that, the limit for you would be 50 , which would explain the NIP at 65. Peugeot Partners seem to come in various styles and carrying capacity which put some under 2T and some over.

Do you know the exact spec and load capacity of the van ?


No, it has to be under 2 tonnes maximum laden weight and be a car derived van.
Jlc
65mph would still be over 60mph if that is the correct limit for the vehicle. The normal enforcement levels wouldn't provide a defence.
rpo
It is the 1.6 HDi 75, payload (so I was informed by the dealer) is 550Kg.
Jlc
QUOTE (rpo @ Thu, 16 Aug 2012 - 19:51) *
It is the 1.6 HDi 75, payload (so I was informed by the dealer) is 550Kg.
This link shows that model may just but under - but as already noted the 'car derived' element might be the showstopper.
The Rookie
Payload being totally and utterly irrelevant.
rpo
Hi again,
since my last post I have received the "conditional offer" and I've spoken with a PC in the traffic camera office. He was not surprised when I said that I had no idea that small vans were subject to lower limits than cars of comparable wieght and said that well over 95% of NIPs awarded to van drivers was a result of them not being aware of the 50/60/70 speed limits rather than the 60/70/70 limits applicable to cars. His view was that an education and awareness campaign was needed but that it was not the role of the constabulary to provide it. Having rented well over 300 vans in my 40 years of driving, I have never been made aware of these limits and neither did the main dealer from whom I bought my van (new) explain that the limits were lower than those for cars.
Perhaps DVLA, when sending out the V5, should include guidance on speed limits? Maybe they do and I missed them? Yes, I recognise that it is my responsibility to be aware of the limits (load security, speed limits etc) of the vehicle I am driving.
Final point, the police themselves surely have a duty to address obvious contravention of the limits? I have driven 40,000 miles this year and in at least 4 jurisdictions (Cambs, Surrey, Hants and South Yorks) have been followed, and overtaken, by "real" police cars (not dog section ones etc) doing 70 on a dual carriageway (dc). By ignoring my obvious speed, they are reinforcing my belief that I am driving within the limits. In my car, I have been driving at 75-80 on a dc and overtaken by a police car and have received a "finger wagging" or a slow down hand signal before they sped off.
I am probably going to take the £60 + 3 points hit, which will be only the 2nd time in 40 years that I have had points applied (last one was 2006 on my way to hospital to visit dad in emergency, caught at 84 in a 70 on a dc).
Thanks for the guidance people
glasgow_bhoy
The man at the scameratti HQ is right- its not the role of the constabulary to educate- its the role of drivers to keep up with the law, and the highway code makes clear the lower limits for vans. The limits make no sense nowadays for vans, but rules is rules...

I wouldn't fault the police for not doing you for it sooner though- they probably realise its a stupid limit and don't really care about it- police have discretion, whilst cameras are very firm.
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