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KevinR
Hi all, I've got a PCN by post. The original wording is: "This notice has been served by post because the CEO who had reason to believe that the above parking contravention had occurred and had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the PCN or was unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle."

This is the big lie from the CEO. What happened that day is I parked on pavement and was going to deposit a cheque in my bank. Just one minute after I walked into the bank I saw a CEO stood next to my car writing on his notebook, I rushed out and the CEO jumped on his bike and off he went before I had chance to speak with him. I stood there and saw he went away around the corner so I went back in to depost my cheque and then left.

The information on the PCN is a lie. Anyway, I emailed the council asking for any photographic evidence or CCTV footage, also ask them to cancel the PCN if they can't provide. They rejected my representation giving this reason:" You were given a parking ticket for parking on a double yellow line; you cannot park here at any time." Also in the letter, the council pointed out that "it is not a legal requirement that we have to take images of your vehicle. The CEO was close enough to your vehicle to record your tax details, make and registration of your car before the driver drove away, this is why we have sent you a postal PCN."

So my question is if I appeal to the adjudicator on the ground of the alleged contravention did not occur, how likely will I win the appeal?
makara
Scan (or photograph) and post up ALL sides of the Ticket (and/or any other paperwork received)

- edit out your personal details and your car reg. and the Ticket number (from the SCANNED version ONLY - do NOT amend anything on the original hard-copy PCN or other original paperwork!) before uploading.
Bluedart
QUOTE (KevinR @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 00:20) *
Hi all, I've got a PCN by post. The original wording is: "This notice has been served by post because the CEO who had reason to believe that the above parking contravention had occurred and had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the PCN or was unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle."

This is the big lie from the CEO. What happened that day is I parked on pavement and was going to deposit a cheque in my bank. Just one minute after I walked into the bank I saw a CEO stood next to my car writing on his notebook, I rushed out and the CEO jumped on his bike and off he went before I had chance to speak with him. I stood there and saw he went away around the corner so I went back in to depost my cheque and then left.

The information on the PCN is a lie. Anyway, I emailed the council asking for any photographic evidence or CCTV footage, also ask them to cancel the PCN if they can't provide. They rejected my representation giving this reason:" You were given a parking ticket for parking on a double yellow line; you cannot park here at any time." Also in the letter, the council pointed out that "it is not a legal requirement that we have to take images of your vehicle. The CEO was close enough to your vehicle to record your tax details, make and registration of your car before the driver drove away, this is why we have sent you a postal PCN."

So my question is if I appeal to the adjudicator on the ground of the alleged contravention did not occur, how likely will I win the appeal?


The IQ of most of those morons is pretty low, it does not need to be anything else. He was in a uniform, you were not - makes a difference when someone else has to decide who was telling the truth.
hcandersen
Subject to seeing the PCN, let's assume that the CEO recorded all necessary information regarding your vehicle.

Your argument is that the vehicle was NOT driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the PCN, and was NOT unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle."

You are arguing this on the basis that you did not leave the location, the CEO did.

It'll be your word against the CEO's, but that's not to say that your word would not be accepted. If this got to adj, you would make arrangements to call the CEO as a witness and not just let the council finesse this by submitting a written case: neither you nor the adj can put questions to a document.

But that's a little way off - let's see the PCN and if you can post a Google Maps link.

HCA

KevinR
QUOTE (Bluedart @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 09:42) *
QUOTE (KevinR @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 00:20) *
Hi all, I've got a PCN by post. The original wording is: "This notice has been served by post because the CEO who had reason to believe that the above parking contravention had occurred and had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the PCN or was unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle."

This is the big lie from the CEO. What happened that day is I parked on pavement and was going to deposit a cheque in my bank. Just one minute after I walked into the bank I saw a CEO stood next to my car writing on his notebook, I rushed out and the CEO jumped on his bike and off he went before I had chance to speak with him. I stood there and saw he went away around the corner so I went back in to depost my cheque and then left.

The information on the PCN is a lie. Anyway, I emailed the council asking for any photographic evidence or CCTV footage, also ask them to cancel the PCN if they can't provide. They rejected my representation giving this reason:" You were given a parking ticket for parking on a double yellow line; you cannot park here at any time." Also in the letter, the council pointed out that "it is not a legal requirement that we have to take images of your vehicle. The CEO was close enough to your vehicle to record your tax details, make and registration of your car before the driver drove away, this is why we have sent you a postal PCN."

So my question is if I appeal to the adjudicator on the ground of the alleged contravention did not occur, how likely will I win the appeal?


The IQ of most of those morons is pretty low, it does not need to be anything else. He was in a uniform, you were not - makes a difference when someone else has to decide who was telling the truth.


Am I very much likely to lose the appeal?


QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 10:00) *
Subject to seeing the PCN, let's assume that the CEO recorded all necessary information regarding your vehicle.

Your argument is that the vehicle was NOT driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the PCN, and was NOT unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle."

You are arguing this on the basis that you did not leave the location, the CEO did.

It'll be your word against the CEO's, but that's not to say that your word would not be accepted. If this got to adj, you would make arrangements to call the CEO as a witness and not just let the council finesse this by submitting a written case: neither you nor the adj can put questions to a document.

But that's a little way off - let's see the PCN and if you can post a Google Maps link.

HCA


I'll scan and upload it when I get home this afternoon.
Neil B
QUOTE (KevinR @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 10:39) *
Am I very much likely to lose the appeal?

I'm not sure I agree with Bluedart's implication there (if Ive read it right).

Are you an honest bloke? Do you present as an honest bloke? Do you think Adjudicators (ultimate possible decision) know what kind of things CEOs and Councils get up to?

The CEO's notes, his version of events, is evidence. Your statement of events as a genuine person is also evidence.
You didn't drive off, he did (as I understand it)

Those CEO notes might reveal something in your favour, especially if he was in the hurry you describe. Where do his notes say he was two minutes later for instance.
Anything slightly odd in his notes might serve to deter the Council from eventually contesting. As might your determination, standing your ground and adamant statement of what really happened. My first ever contested PCN was won solely because an Adjudicator believed me and didn't like the CEO's version - or doubted it.

- BUT, there are never guarantees and it isn't a massively strong case on your word alone.

We also need details of what you earlier mentioned -- may not have been in contravention?

and, of course, the documents.
Hippocrates
I read a case some time ago where the CEO stated that the Reg 9 PCN was still being printed when the motorist drove off. The latter won. I wonder which part of the process of preparing for service of the original PCN (Reg 9) applies here?
KevinR
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 14:00) *
QUOTE (KevinR @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 10:39) *
Am I very much likely to lose the appeal?

I'm not sure I agree with Bluedart's implication there (if Ive read it right).

Are you an honest bloke? Do you present as an honest bloke? Do you think Adjudicators (ultimate possible decision) know what kind of things CEOs and Councils get up to?

The CEO's notes, his version of events, is evidence. Your statement of events as a genuine person is also evidence.
You didn't drive off, he did (as I understand it)

Those CEO notes might reveal something in your favour, especially if he was in the hurry you describe. Where do his notes say he was two minutes later for instance.
Anything slightly odd in his notes might serve to deter the Council from eventually contesting. As might your determination, standing your ground and adamant statement of what really happened. My first ever contested PCN was won solely because an Adjudicator believed me and didn't like the CEO's version - or doubted it.

- BUT, there are never guarantees and it isn't a massively strong case on your word alone.

We also need details of what you earlier mentioned -- may not have been in contravention?

and, of course, the documents.


Which part I mentioned earlier may not have been in contravention? Do you mean it is not a convention if I parked on the pavement instead of double yellow line, but the council says I parked on the double yellow line?
KevinR
I appealed it but I didn't describe the event. I just said I never parked there, I think the council does not have any evidence except the CEO's lie. What do you guys think?
Enceladus
QUOTE (KevinR @ Tue, 7 Aug 2012 - 10:18) *
I appealed it but I didn't describe the event. I just said I never parked there, I think the council does not have any evidence except the CEO's lie. What do you guys think?

It was not a good idea to lie. What was wrong with the truth? I would have restated your original history as you told it here.

You admit that you parked where you did however no PCN was lawfully served on you. In order to be enforceable the PCN first had to be served.

The CEO could have served a PCN:
By fixing it to the windscreen,
or
By handing it to you,
or
By sending you a postal version, (this is the case here).

However the postal version can only be sent if the CEO was prevented by someone from serving it at the scene;
or
The CEO had begun to prepare a PCN but the vehicle was driven away before it was finished and issued.

The PCN was not attached to the car, nor was it handed to you. You did not prevent him from serving the PCN at the time. And you did not drive away before the PCN could be issued. In fact, the CEO left the scene before you did.

Hence no PCN has ever been lawfully served on you. So it boils down to credibility. Does the Adjudicator believe you? Lying (even by omission) is not a good start.

Have you asked for a personal hearing? I suggest you do so if you have not. And I suggest you consider revising anything that you have already submitted to the Adjudicator.
hcandersen
You don't mean "appeal" do you, you mean made formal reps, don't you? Let's be clear.

As regards the question posed in your first post:
QUOTE
So my question is if I appeal to the adjudicator on the ground of the alleged contravention did not occur, how likely will I win the appeal? Nil or worse.


It did occur. You were not alleged to have been parked on DYL, the contravention is "parked in restricted street". The street includes the footway adjacent to the lines painted on the carriageway. So there's no argument here as far as I can see. You were mistaken to have thought that the contravention required you to have been stationary on the lines - mistaken is a better reason for your dispute than lied, so we'll go with mistaken, yes? As per previous advice, on the basis that your account is correct, then I'd appeal to PATAS and I'd add in additional info (which we'll get to in time) that in your reps you disputed the contravention under the misunderstanding that your car had to be parked on the lines, but you've now been advised and accept that this is incorrect. However, that advice also informed you that the PCN should not have been served, it should have been served by hand which would have provided you with a significantly different and enhanced appeals procedure.

Ultimately, your argument is that the conditions precedent upon a PCN being served under regulation 10 were not satisfied and therefore the PCN is void.

HCA
Enceladus
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 8 Aug 2012 - 11:36) *
You don't mean "appeal" do you, you mean made formal reps, don't you? Let's be clear.

As I understand it the OP had received a postal PCN.
He made (formal) representations against it.
He received a Notice of Rejection and appeal forms.

His most recent post suggests that he has now submitted the appeal forms to the Adjudication service?
In his submission to the Adjudicator he has denied that he parked where he did?
QUOTE
I appealed it but I didn't describe the event. I just said I never parked there,

I suggest that this was not in his best interests. For a start the Adjudicator will have sight of his original representations where it it is seemingly admitted that he was parked where alleged.

Anyway.
Please post up the text of what exactly you did put on the appeal forms? If you have lodged an appeal.
and
A scrubbed scan of the Council Notice of Rejection.
and
The exact text of your representations to the Council.
and
Scrubbed scans of all sides of all pages of the original postal PCN.

Please do not obscure or redact any date, time, location or Council info. Just obscure your name & address, vehicle reg and PCN number.
KevinR
So the PCN by post was actually not valid because the CEO left before I did. I didn't know that. Anyway, please see the pcn, rejection letter and the appeal form. Let me know what I should do from now on.

Actually, I saw the CEO was having his sandwich around the corner sitting on the curb. I really should pulled over and record of a video of him that day for evidence.
hcandersen
You register your appeal on the form enclosed with the Notice of Rejection. You tick "procedural impropriety"; elect for a personal hearing; and put in box 5 "further details to follow", and that's it - simples.

Come back when you've done this.

You do not compile your appeal now, just register it - OK?


HCA
KevinR
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 8 Aug 2012 - 18:50) *
You register your appeal on the form enclosed with the Notice of Rejection. You tick "procedural impropriety"; elect for a personal hearing; and put in box 5 "further details to follow", and that's it - simples.

Come back when you've done this.

You do not compile your appeal now, just register it - OK?


HCA


I've already submitted it on the basis of the alleged contravention did not occur. Can I change it?
hcandersen
Yes, you can amend your appeal at any time.

So you now have to add the PI grounds - I suggest you phone PATAS and see whether they've registered your appeal yet and whether they'll take amendments by email.

Don't forget, PATAS are not "the other side", they're simply (good) admin. staff who administer the procedure, so feel free to speak to them.

BTW, what exactly did you submit?

HCA
KevinR
The form I submitted is to appeal to TPT, not PATAS。 They've registered it already.
hcandersen
It merely registers your intention, it's not your appeal. You may amend the type of hearing; the grounds; and your arguments up to and including the day of the hearing.

If it's been registered, when's your hearing date etc. Pl post their letter.


HCA
KevinR
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 8 Aug 2012 - 20:51) *
It merely registers your intention, it's not your appeal. You may amend the type of hearing; the grounds; and your arguments up to and including the day of the hearing.

If it's been registered, when's your hearing date etc. Pl post their letter.


HCA


I'll ring them up yesterday, and will update here.
Enceladus
I only see page 1 of the postal PCN. Please post up all of the remaining pages.
KevinR
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Wed, 8 Aug 2012 - 22:31) *
I only see page 1 of the postal PCN. Please post up all of the remaining pages.



Nothing except instructions for payment is on page 2.
KevinR
I've email tpt to amend my appeal. Here's what I wrote: I'd like to add some detail in the description of the event and add the grounds of the appeal for there has been a procedural impropriety by the council. And I would like a personal hearing in Manchester instead of a postal decision.

The original wording on the PCN is: "This notice has been served by post because the CEO who had reason to believe that the above parking contravention had occurred and had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the PCN or was unable to serve it by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle."

This is not true. The truth is I parked on pavement outside the bank and went in to deposit a cheque. And I don't think it was contravention because I didn't block the pathway. However, as soon as I walked into the bank I saw a CEO stood next to my car writing on his notebook, I rushed out but the CEO jumped on his bike and off he went before I had chance to speak with him. I stood there and saw he cycled away around the corner so I went back to put the cheque in and then left. No one prevented him from issuing a PCN, and I did not drive off. So I believe it is a procedural impropriety.

Any suggestions?
SchoolRunMum
My suggestion would be to delete this admission:

''The truth is I parked on pavement outside the bank and went in to deposit a cheque. And I don't think it was contravention because I didn't block the pathway. However, as soon as I walked into the bank ''.

It reads fine without that bit. You are emailing this extra info to tell them that HE drove away, not you. You should be dropping yourself in it!

And make sure all emails include the info the PCN says you MUST include, postal address etc. not just the email addy.
Hippocrates
In my view, you should request - from the council - the full log for the day of this CEO and a witness statement by the same, and I would ask the adjudicator to make a decision that the said CEO does attend at the tribunal.
Neil B
QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Thu, 9 Aug 2012 - 14:11) *
In my view, you should request - from the council - the full log for the day of this CEO

Can I just ask, since you suggest this fairly often, what the purpose is and what relevance it might have, even in the unlikely event a Council complied or an Adjudicator agreed it was necessary?
Enceladus
QUOTE (KevinR @ Thu, 9 Aug 2012 - 11:55) *
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Wed, 8 Aug 2012 - 22:31) *
I only see page 1 of the postal PCN. Please post up all of the remaining pages.



Nothing except instructions for payment is on page 2.

Is there no page 3 or page 4?
and
please post up the page 2 that you do have.

In general all sides of all pages. The only exception being a 100% blank page. (And 100% means exactly that. Not 99.9999%.)

There may well be fatal errors in the small print. And the lack of small print may also render the PCN void.
hcandersen
I rather like the OP's amendment. This will come down to credibility and there's no point trying to mislead or not presenting the whole truth. You were parked on the pavement, don't dodge it or deny it. I rather like the "I went back into the bank" part. This comes across well because it means that the CEO didn't even make it clear that a contravention was being committed, so the OP went about his business again!

Your defence, which you admit is technical, is well-founded and should win the day if you can convince the adj regarding your version of events. You know now and accept that you shouldn't have been there, but at least you accept your wrongdoing. If the council, having been informed of your revised defence, continue to persist in pursuing this PCN will not be admitting theirs, however.

HCA
KevinR
Here's page 2 of the PCN
Enceladus
Two pages only? Is there no page 3 or 4?

Please don't do it, but if hypothetically you were to cut off the payment slip on page 1, along the dotted line, how much of the text on page 2 would be lost?
KevinR
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Fri, 10 Aug 2012 - 12:50) *
Two pages only? Is there no page 3 or 4?

Please don't do it, but if hypothetically you were to cut off the payment slip on page 1, along the dotted line, how much of the text on page 2 would be lost?



Are those pages important. I think those are all how-to instructions.
bama
They are all important, that why we ask for them every time - the contents are defined by statute and councils are known to feck it up from time to time.
Enceladus
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 10 Aug 2012 - 17:31) *
They are all important, that why we ask for them every time - the contents are defined by statute and councils are known to feck it up from time to time.

QUOTE (Enceladus @ Fri, 10 Aug 2012 - 01:33) *
There may well be fatal errors in the small print. And the lack of small print may also render the PCN void.

QUOTE (Enceladus @ Fri, 10 Aug 2012 - 12:50) *
Please don't do it, but if hypothetically you were to cut off the payment slip on page 1, along the dotted line, how much of the text on page 2 would be lost?


So please post up scans of all sides of all the remaining pages of the Penalty Charge Notice.
and
If hypothetically, you were to cut off the payment slip on page 1, along the indicated dotted line, how much of the text on page 2 would be lost? IE from where onwards would no longer be present on page 2.
KevinR
Been away from home. I rescanned all pages. These are all pages for the PCN.

Should I upload the rejection letter as well? I was gonna upload them but the system wouldn't let me to. Please let me know if you want to see them.
BTW, I haven't heard anything back since I appealed. What will happen? If I go on to the hearing, what am I suppose to say there except telling them what happened.
qafqa
QUOTE
Enceladus Posted Sat, 11 Aug 2012 - 15:46
If hypothetically, you were to cut off the payment slip on page 1, along the indicated dotted line, how much of the text on page 2 would be lost? IE from where onwards would no longer be present on page 2.

Can you answer the question please KevinR smile.gif

There is a good reason for asking it cool.gif
KevinR
QUOTE (qafqa @ Mon, 13 Aug 2012 - 20:46) *
QUOTE
Enceladus Posted Sat, 11 Aug 2012 - 15:46
If hypothetically, you were to cut off the payment slip on page 1, along the indicated dotted line, how much of the text on page 2 would be lost? IE from where onwards would no longer be present on page 2.

Can you answer the question please KevinR smile.gif

There is a good reason for asking it cool.gif



Everything underneath from the line starts with "none of the specified grounds apply." would be lost. Please see the outlined. What's wrong with this? Click to view attachment
Enceladus
Don't try to attach images or scans to your posts. You host them externally and copy and paste the resultant links into your posts on here. And please don't try and resize images. Just upload to your hosting service and let the forum software take care of image sizes.

A guide to all this is to be found in the site FAQ section here. I use tinypic.com myself, there are numerous others, and never have any issues.

A payment slip is deemed not to be part of a Penalty Charge Notice. Therefore it cannot contain the only copy of mandatory information and/or wording. Because if it was detached the original PCN would no longer be valid as mandatory information or wording would then be missing.

The PATAS key case that this comes from is London Borough of Wandsworth v Al’s Bar and Restaurant.
QUOTE
As to the Payment Slip, it is in my view not part of the PCN at all; it is a separate document that is, for convenience, attached to the PCN.


You can read the entire key case by searching the PATAS database here. Click on the "Search" button below the blue "P". Input 2020106430.

So throw that into the post.
KevinR
What are you suggesting me to do? Make that comments to the adjudicator?
SchoolRunMum
Ultimately yes, and you would cite the key case mentioned if it comes to that, but you aren't at that stage yet are you? Have you appealed the PCN to the Council yet?
KevinR
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 14 Aug 2012 - 17:18) *
Ultimately yes, and you would cite the key case mentioned if it comes to that, but you aren't at that stage yet are you? Have you appealed the PCN to the Council yet?


Council had rejected my representation. I am at stage of waiting for the hearing.
KevinR
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Tue, 14 Aug 2012 - 02:40) *
Don't try to attach images or scans to your posts. You host them externally and copy and paste the resultant links into your posts on here. And please don't try and resize images. Just upload to your hosting service and let the forum software take care of image sizes.

A guide to all this is to be found in the site FAQ section here. I use tinypic.com myself, there are numerous others, and never have any issues.

A payment slip is deemed not to be part of a Penalty Charge Notice. Therefore it cannot contain the only copy of mandatory information and/or wording. Because if it was detached the original PCN would no longer be valid as mandatory information or wording would then be missing.

The PATAS key case that this comes from is London Borough of Wandsworth v Al’s Bar and Restaurant.
QUOTE
As to the Payment Slip, it is in my view not part of the PCN at all; it is a separate document that is, for convenience, attached to the PCN.


You can read the entire key case by searching the PATAS database here. Click on the "Search" button below the blue "P". Input 2020106430.

So throw that into the post.


I've read the case but it's too technical for me to understand it. Can you advise me what to do next please?
Hippocrates
Notice of Rejection, please.
KevinR
QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Wed, 15 Aug 2012 - 00:01) *
Notice of Rejection, please.



I just don't know how to link pictures from external website so I have to delete the previous uploads first. Sorry about it. Please see the notice of rejection.Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Hippocrates
Thanks. Please can you direct me to your original appeal i.e. what you wrote which triggered their NOR?
KevinR
QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Thu, 16 Aug 2012 - 19:12) *
Thanks. Please can you direct me to your original appeal i.e. what you wrote which triggered their NOR?


When I received the pcn by post, I was mad about the CEO's lie. So instead of telling the council what happened, I simply denied I parked there and ask them for evidence for the contravention.
Anas27
Hi All,

I've got a similar problem. I parked in a disabled bay without a badge for less than 5 minutes, without realizing that the bay was for the disabled. I came out of the shop and saw the attendant taking some info of my car. I pleaded with him, but he refused. I drove away quickly, so I didn't get a ticket, a pcn wasn't sent to me by post either. I went away after a month so I definitely didn't get a pcn, as I would've seen. I came back and saw that a notice to owner had been sent whilst I was away. I was given 28 days to either pay or make representations, I wasn't given the 14days discounted option. Ofcourse I was away by then so didn't have the chance to respond to the notice, so they had also sent a charge certificat, increasing the amount to £165.

My questions is, what are my options now? Firstly, I wasn't actually served with a pcn either in person or by post. I just got sent notice to owner. Secondly I wasn't even given the 14days discounted option. Is this whole thing valid?? Can I still appeal?

Please help me
bama
1 Start your own thread
2 post the docs in the new thread - scrubbed of personal details. leave dates and times in
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=16
KevinR
Hi guys,

I received a copy of the evidence that council sent to adjudicator. The CEO wrote a witness statement but he still lied about what happened. What should I do? I am going to ask the bank to provide me with their CCTV footage but I don't think they will give it to me but I will still try. In case I can't prove he lied, it's gonna be my word against his in the hearing, what chance will there be for me to win the case?
bama
there are a LOT of docs we haven't seen....
KevinR
A payment slip is deemed not to be part of a Penalty Charge Notice. Therefore it cannot contain the only copy of mandatory information and/or wording. Because if it was detached the original PCN would no longer be valid as mandatory information or wording would then be missing.


Is this correct? Can I use this to render the PCN invalid?
SchoolRunMum
Yep, you can use this to try to convince an adjudicator that a PCN is invalid anyway.
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