Crg
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 08:53
Hi all,
This is my first post on the forum and would like to say thanks in advance for Any help and sparing you time to give me some answers.
Ok here goes.
Back on 29th November 11 I was disqualified for 6 months for totting up and fined £300. I accepted the charge as I know I was in the wrong. Fast forward a week and I received a phone call from my solicitor saying she thought I had a fair chance of an appeal, so I went with it as it wasn't going to cost me any extra on top of her fees. Anyway to cut a long story short my appeal wasn't granted meaning I was still banned. The next week I went out and bought a road bike and cycled daily wind sleet and snow to work until my wife passed her test in April. After the 6 months had passed I began driving again. I never had my licence revoked at the court and having never had any past experience of this I just thought after the 6 month period my licence was valid again.
Fast forward to 30th June and I was pulled over at the side of the road for a routine check. When I have my details and the officer put them into the system I was immediately asked to get In the back of the patrol car. What came next was unbelievable. He told me I was still banned from driving until 2nd July. Unknown to me the appeal period does not count and I was never told of this by my solicitor. I thought my ban was up on 29th may. I never even started back driving until the 21st june as I was on holiday. I was arrested but then released on an undertaking to appear in court. I have written to the solicitors that dealt with the original asking them to send me all correspondence relating to the case so that I can take it with me to show I was not informed of this rule if that's what you call it. They have never kelpies to my letter and when I called them all I got was "oh you would of been told this"
Why would I risk of for a just over a week when I was on holiday anyway and had spent the last 5 months cycling 20 miles per day after 12 hour shifts. I do not know where I stand, I have not consulted another solicitor as I am really struggling for money at the moment and want to represent myself.
What are the chances of keeping my licence. I don't want to have to go through that again.
Thanks for reason this marathon story, I hope I have made sence and again any help will be appreciated
Crg
I have just read over my post and must apologise for some of the spelling/grammar etc. I typed this up on my phone an as the post is so long it was hard to go back through it to check it out. I hope you get the general idea from it
Gan
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 08:57
Was the disqualification suspended while you were waiting for the appeal ?
Crg
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 08:59
That's what the police are saying according to there system.
AntonyMMM
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 09:12
Lodging an appeal is often used as a way of delaying the start of any ban - but it isn't an automatic delay, as part of the procedure for lodging the appeal an application can be made to the magistrates for the ban to be suspended pending the appeal decision. Your solicitor should know whether such an application was made. If it was the dates are probably correct.
If it wasn't made, then the ban would run as you thought - it may be that someone down the line has made a mistake and "assumed".
Sounds like your solicitors have let you down badly if they didn't explain this fully to you.....and should certainly be helping you sort it out. You may want to be asking them about their complaints process.
Crg
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 09:20
They sure have. The girl that done my case in my opinion wasn't very good. I had never been to court before so wasn't sure of what would happen and all she kept saying was. You'll be fine. Not impressed. And to think I paid them 360 to do the case.
dawmdt
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 09:46
I'm not sure if this is a strict liaibility offence or not (I strongly suspect it is). If it is, the bench have the option of imposing six points to your licence instead of extending the ban, but you'll need to convince them as the norm would be to extend the ban 6-12 months (as well as some form of community order). If it isn't, you aren't technically guilty (IMO, but I'm not a lawyer...) and you might have a defence in that.
I think a good motoring solicitor might help here, preferably not the one you used before...
Aretnap
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 09:58
As the ban was for longer than 56 days you should have
applied for your licence back when it expired rather than just starting to drive again. Did you do this?
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 10:46)
I'm not sure if this is a strict liaibility offence or not (I strongly suspect it is). If it is, the bench have the option of imposing six points to your licence instead of extending the ban, but you'll need to convince them as the norm would be to extend the ban 6-12 months (as well as some form of community order).
It is. The
sentencing guidelines (page 120) do list "Defendant not present when disqualification imposed and genuine reason why unaware of ban" as a mitigating factor; if the OP can persuade the bench that the confusion was genuine they would hopefully see that as a mitigating factor.
QUOTE
I think a good motoring solicitor might help here, preferably not the one you used before...
+1, especially to the last part.
Logician
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 10:00
You should have handed in your licence when you were disqualified or ordered to send it to the court and been told that you would have to apply for a new licence towards the end of your disqualification period, and could not start driving until the disqualification period had ended and you had received a new licence. It is a standard pronouncement and it would be surprising if it was not made.
Crg
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 17:41
No I was never asked for my licence in court also I was not asked to send it in to them. I had it the whole length of the ban, when I was stopped the police officers took it off me so had to send away for a new one which I now have showing the ban. I have waited patiently for a response from the solicitor dealing with the original case and now I have ran out of time as nothing arrived today. Is there any way I can attend court tomorrow and ask for an adjournment until I seek a different solicitor. Also what should my plea be?
Is there any chance of a jail period for this as I've read that it can be a custodial sentence?
TheBeak
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 18:34
Did you appeal immediately on sentence, or leave it to your solicitor to appeal sometime later. Did you agree to appeal with your solicitor on the day of your ban?
If you did the court would have suspended the ban pending appeal on the day - probably the reason you still have your licence. This should have been taken at the Crown Court when the appeal failed, but the Crown Court know a lot about murder but little about traffic.
Crg
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 18:44
No I never even knew you could appeal. The solicitor phoned me a few days after the court date to say she thought we would have a good chance of an appeal due to the judges manner or something along these lines. I never went back to court for the appeal she done it all for me then a few weeks later she sent me a letter saying the appeal was not granted and the ban still stood. I was unaware this period did not count towards the ban
Logician
Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 21:06
QUOTE
I was arrested but then released on an undertaking to appear in court.
QUOTE
I have ran out of time as nothing arrived today. Is there any way I can attend court tomorrow and ask for an adjournment until I seek a different solicitor
If tomorrow is the date you undertook to appear,
you must certainly go there. Explain how your solicitor has failed to reply to all your attempts to contact her and ask for an adjournment.
dawmdt
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 - 11:24
QUOTE (Crg @ Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 18:41)
Is there any chance of a jail period for this as I've read that it can be a custodial sentence?
Theoretically you could be imprisoned for this but I'd be stunned if that was the sentence in your circumstances.
Mayhem007
Fri, 27 Jul 2012 - 13:31
QUOTE (Crg @ Wed, 25 Jul 2012 - 19:44)
No I never even knew you could appeal. The solicitor phoned me a few days after the court date to say she thought we would have a good chance of an appeal due to the judges manner or something along these lines. I never went back to court for the appeal she done it all for me then a few weeks later she sent me a letter saying the appeal was not granted and the ban still stood. I was unaware this period did not count towards the ban
Find it very difficult to understand or believe that your ban was suspended pending an appeal. No doubt the appeal was refused on the grounds that it was frivolous, in which case I doubt very much they would have agreed to suspension of the ban duing the appeal process. A court order would have to been issued stating stating suspension of the ban.
You need to establish from your solicitor if such an order was given.
Was your solicitor appealing on grounds of abuse of process.
andy_foster
Fri, 27 Jul 2012 - 14:09
Presumably the OP's solicitor appealed to the Crown Court - does not need higher rights of audience if it was the same solicitor that represented the OP in the mags. There is no issue regarding permission to appeal to the Crown Court - it is a statutory right.
Once the appeal papers had been lodged, it is hard to see how any application to suspend the ban could properly be refused. However it would seem that the OP's solicitor would have been under a duty both to inform him that his ban had been suspended, and upon loosing the appeal, that his ban was now re-instated and when it would expire.
Whilst the OP might not have a defence per se, if the offence is one of strict liability, if he can prove what he has told us, it would seem that he should expect an absolute discharge. If his solicitor is being uncommunicative, I would strongly suggest making a formal complaint to the SRA (Law Society in old money), and/or getting a witness summons issued against his solicitor.
TheBeak
Sat, 28 Jul 2012 - 14:11
I find it hard to believe that there was an appeal in the Crown Court that 1) The OP was unaware of and 2) He did not attend.
The Rookie
Sat, 28 Jul 2012 - 15:36
The OP was aware of it........an appeal on point of law wouldn't require the OP to attend, so I find it very easy to believe!
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