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kickers20
hi,

I finished work today to be greeted by my manager with a parking ticket for me. I had to collect from a shop on a double yellow line, there is no alternative place to stop. I have been stopping here for over a year without problems, however on this day a camera decided to get me.

My manager says i am liable for the ticket and they will deduct it from my wages, i told him i refuse to pay it as i had nowhere else to stop, and i was working on behalf of them therefore they are liable for the ticket. he said if i had phoned him to tell him i may get a ticket then he would be willing to pay it, but as i didnt phone then i have to pay.

It does say in my contract that i am liable for parking fines, but if there is no alternative place to stop how can this be fair? Do i have a leg to stand on with this? And can they deduct my pay lawfully even if i do not agree?

Thanks
Paul.
d7r7w7
QUOTE (kickers20 @ Mon, 23 Jul 2012 - 17:17) *
hi,

I finished work today to be greeted by my manager with a parking ticket for me. I had to collect from a shop on a double yellow line, there is no alternative place to stop. I have been stopping here for over a year without problems, however on this day a camera decided to get me.

My manager says i am liable for the ticket and they will deduct it from my wages, i told him i refuse to pay it as i had nowhere else to stop, and i was working on behalf of them therefore they are liable for the ticket. he said if i had phoned him to tell him i may get a ticket then he would be willing to pay it, but as i didnt phone then i have to pay.

It does say in my contract that i am liable for parking fines, but if there is no alternative place to stop how can this be fair? Do i have a leg to stand on with this? And can they deduct my pay lawfully even if i do not agree?

Thanks
Paul.


First off...'doing a delivery' were you using a company vehicle or your own?
If it was your own vehicle, I would imagine its just one of those 'tough' situiations...if you were using a company vehicle, it is entirely your companies problems.

They cannot take it out of your wages, unless of course it is in your contract of employment, so I would check your contract. But it will in most circumtsnace be entirel;y illegal to deduct from your salary. I would check your contract first, they may have sneakily put something in. Otherwise advice is if you bel;ong to a Union, I would consult them as well. If they do deduct from your salary, I would consult Citizen's Advice before commenting or reacting to anything. If they do deduct from your salary and you do have to take action, I'd probably look for another job as well, it might make it hard to work there. At which point, I'd speak top CAB about suing for constructive dismissal as well.

In short. Your car - tough. Company vehicle - not your problem.
makara
While waiting for your answer -

Scan (or photograph) and post up ALL sides of the Ticket (and/or any other paperwork received)

- edit out your personal details and your car reg. and the Ticket number (from the SCANNED version ONLY - do NOT amend anything on the original hard-copy PCN or other original paperwork!) before uploading.
Incandescent
There is a possible loading exemption, but you have to find out if there are restrictions on this as well.
Gan
Your company is liable for the payment to the council.
It's quite normal however to include terms to recover the money from you in the contract of employment.

That shouldn't stop them from challenging the ticket.

Were you collecting something that was large and bulky so that you can claim to be "Loading" ?

Get the ticket from them and post it up, every page, with your personal details removed.
kickers20
Yes I was in a company vehicle collecting for the company. I don't have the pcn, I left it with my manager as I refused to pay it. I know my contract does state I am liable for parking fines, however if they are unavoidable I don't see how that's my problem.

Thanks.

I was collecting about 200kgs of clothes and books, in brighton.
As far as I'm aware they have already paid the fine, does that mean they can no longer contest it?
kickers20
Also the date of the offence was 03/07/12 and I wasn't informed until today 23/07/12, 20 days later! So it's already out of the 14 day period, how long do you get to contest?

On the brighton and hove council website under appeals it says this.

"Please refer to the Penalty Charge Notice or Notice to Owner form for details and the statutory grounds for appeal. All cases will be considered individually on their merits. More information about the challenge and representation process can be found at www.patrol-uk.info.

Please include any relevant supporting documents such as :-

A crime reference number if the vehicle was stolen.
A delivery note if the vehicle was loading or unloading.
Any supplementary evidence you wish to submit in support of your appeal.

Please note we are unable to accept appeals electronically if the Penalty Charge Notice has reached the Debt Registration stage or a warrant has been issued to a bailiff company. Please instead refer to the Notice of Debt Registration document."

Does this mean if i have a delivery note to prove i was loading (which my company have) will the appeal be successful?
hcandersen
You must firstly establish whether the penalty charge has been paid - it's pointless speculating about whether you were loading or not or whether it was your vehicle or not if it's been paid. If it's been paid, that's it as far as the PCN is concerned.

Are your company entitled to deduct this from your wages? I doubt it, irrespective of whether your contract refers to this, if you were not given the chance to submit a challenge against the penalty charge. It's not a "fine" it's a penalty charge and a postal PCN is only notification that an alleged contravention has occurred and that a penalty charge is owing. "Fines" are handed down by courts after determination of an allegation. You could also include Fixed Penalties with fines as these are predicated on an admission of liability. But a postal PCN does not imply an admission of liability by the person who carries that liability, just an allegation of liability for a penalty by an enforcement authority.

In any event, they're your paymasters and so what recourse would you have if they stopped the money? The nuclear option is to lodge a complaint with an Employment Tribunal, but in reality would you?


HCA
kickers20
Yes my company have already paid the council. I wouldn't hesitate in taking them to a tribuneral if I had grounds to.
hcandersen
Then unless you think that if you were to take the matter up with management and convince them that the penalty was not properly due they would decide to consume their own smoke and not deduct any money from you, this issue is no longer about "parking" it's about the enforceability of the conditions of an employment contract and the scope of an ET. There's no problem with the latter as unauthorised deductions is a specific ground for submitting a claim to an ET.

I'm not certain that this is the appropriate forum for scrutinising the conditions of an employment contract though.

Motley Fool - Practical Legal Issues Board? Or perhaps other posters could suggest alternatives?

HCA
kickers20
Thanks alot for your help. I'll just wait it out and see what happens. I did say that if they were to deduct my wages I would be seeking legal advice, and I'm in the process of joining a union so will consult them if it goes any further.

Thanks
Paul
MartinHP71
QUOTE (kickers20 @ Mon, 23 Jul 2012 - 19:27) *
Thanks alot for your help. I'll just wait it out and see what happens. I did say that if they were to deduct my wages I would be seeking legal advice, and I'm in the process of joining a union so will consult them if it goes any further.

Thanks
Paul


Most unions stipulate that there is a period of time before they will act on your behalf or provide advice. Mainly to stop people just joining, getting the support and then leaving. Even the Unions want money.

Speak to your Citizens Advice and LOG everything. Every conversation about the Matter whether formal or informal. Keep copies of everything

Did your company provide you with a trolley to help with the collection ? i.e. could you have parked around the corner and wheeled it abit further ?
kickers20
There is nowhere within a reasonable distance to stop. I have no trolley, nor any manual handling training for that matter.
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