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VEET19
I have received a bus lane enforcement charge notice for being in the bus lane on London Road, Edinburgh. The document shows a picture of me in the bus lane and it is correct I am in the bus lane, however I only just moved in to the bus lane right before the camera. If the traffic is backed up at the lights ahead and you do get in to the bus lane before the lights you have to stop dead on the outside lane, indicate and hope when the lights change to green the backed up traffic let you in. If you stay in the outside lane up to the lights you then have to go straight on to Willowbrae Road, the wrong direction.

I feel very strongly that the camera is in the wrong place on this bus lane, it's too near the traffic lights.

I have attached the notice for you to look at but I have noticed already the usual scare tactics of local councils using the word "will" instead of "may" on more than one occasion. On the front they are using it when they say "This will increase the charge by 50% to £90." They then go on to say "Failure to pay the increased amount may result in the charge Certificate being passed to the Sheriff Officer for enforcement/collection", however they are at it again if you look at the wording on the back which says, "....then your option to make representation within 28 days, beginning with the date of service of this notice, then your option to make representation will no longer apply and a Charge Certificate will be sent to you meaning that the charge will increase from £60 to £90".

Let me know what you think?
muckychimney
Having just had a look on gsv there is a distinct lack of repeater signs and road markings along the whole length of the bus lane on that stretch of road, however gsv isnt always that accurate !

If you can go back and take photos of where you were caught, not sure if the legalaties are different north of the border but neil b is up on bus lane stuff for us south of the border.

For a bit more info have a read of ticketfighters definitions http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/bus.htm
Hippocrates
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2011/442/regulation/8/made

Spot on re "will" and "may". 8(5)(n) and 8(6) also appear to be missing.

PATAS cases:- 2110072817, 2100649871 and 2110415753

http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/
Incandescent
Moving traffic offences are usually supported by a video which you can view. Make sure you see this video. Having said that, you doe seem to be some considerable distance into the bus lane, so any challenge will have to centre on the council following the correct process, and issuing a legally compliant PCN. There seems to be no traffic at all in the other lane.
VEET19
I am approaching the bus lane from a side road, the only signs they have are yellow signs saying bus lane camera, they don't have any blue bus lane signs. When you go through the traffic lights they have the start of the bus lane with a blue bus only sign and the words bus lane painted on the ground. For the rest of the stretch they don't have any more blue signs or painted bus lane sign on the ground the only other sign is the camera sign. It's quite easy to miss the sign when you go through the lights, I never new this was a bus lane originally because I thought they had to be painted red and along with no other bus lane signs on that stretch or the words bus lane painted on the road it's not clear. What are the rules regarding when the bus lane signs should be repeated?

On the comments about 8(5)n & 8(6) is that not covered by the still photographs on the front of the enforcement notice?
Incandescent
It is well known now that bus lane enforcement in Edinburgh has been a fiasco. From what you say, I would think inadequate signage is a very good defence here.
Neil B
QUOTE (VEET19 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2012 - 09:53) *
On the comments about 8(5)n & 8(6) is that not covered by the still photographs on the front of the enforcement notice?


No.

BUT - 8(5)(n) IS there isn't it.

Any other flaws in the PCN were covered in an earlier case, for the same location I think.


Where you mention approaching from a side road, can you be more specific with references to what/where. You have a picture in your head and we are guessing.

Side roads should have signs indicating a Bus Lane in the road you are about to join. They are white - in TSRGD but I can't be arsed to look at mo. There's probably an example on the 'Ticketfighter' website.

---

I still don't like that statement that if you make formal reps then the fight is definitely for the full amount. As 'bama' has said elsewhere - a matter of administrative law - to always be prepared to exercise discretion.

I'd attack that since I believe Edinburgh DO re-offer a chance to pay at discount in the case of parking challenges (Its bl**dy hard to find an example on the forum though).
The inconsistency then is clearly unfair IMO.
VEET19
I came through Holyrood Park which brings you up to Royal Park Terrace Meadowbank traffic lights which join London Road where the bus lane is. I have never seen any bus lane warning signs until they have put up these yellow signs saying bus lane camera.

8(5)n is on.

The word "will" has been used twice on the front and back, that's not by accident it's intentional to get me to pay up and I notice also they use it on the council web site also. Would this be enough to appeal, at the end of the day it doesn't comply with the Bus Lane Contraventions (Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (Scotland)?
Hippocrates
Apologies re 8 (5) (n) - I was looking for another issue. The wording is only one ground on which to appeal; but, there is the one PATAS case mentioned which won on this. Hit and miss, I'm afraid. And it took that adjudicator at least 4 months to make his mind up.
VEET19
What to do, what to do.

If it wasn't for the fact that they have used the word "will" three times when the legislation says "may" which is intentional I would probably just give up and pay the fine.

What if I write a letter explaining my reasons for moving into the bus lane (you have to be in this lane to move forward on to Portobello Road and the traffic was backed up in front of the camera), if you don't, you have to stop dead in the outside lane and hold up all the traffic. Then use the regulations and the intentional three uses of the word "will" to threaten me into paying asap and that the Enforcement notice is non compliant on three occasions. 2100649871 is a good example although it's a different council, I think it's worth having a go, what do you think?
Neil B
You have more than that don't you?

On signage alone your description is that a sign is missing in your approach in the side road. Have you checked the requirements on 'Ticketfighter'?

962 or 962.2 sign ?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/schedule/5/made

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- and did you find the earlier thread? It's a simple matter - I look for it or you look for it - guess which its going to be rolleyes.gif
VEET19
What earlier thread?
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