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Full Version: Parking fine for car not belonging to me. Advice needed.
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
endorfin
A
bama
when the Bs wage in the best move is contact bailiffadviceonline (BAO)
there is a small fee, we don't get a cut and its well worth the money. Sheila is the best when the Bs are involved.

Do NOT pay the bailiffs or you will be screwed.

you need to marshal your facts before you contact BAO,
specifically exactly what documents were received and when.

Did your initial appeal to the PCN
QUOTE
I tried to appeal against the fine by writing to the council with copies of the disabled badge

mention that you were not the driver nor the RK ?
It would be very good if you have exact text of that appeal (and post it here, minus your personal details of course)

IF the council did a DVLA check for the RK there is no legitimate way they can be chasing you.

First priority is get the Bs called off. marshal your facts and contact BAO - ASAP

the contents of this document
QUOTE
A few days ago I received a letter from a Certified Bailiff company saying Bailiff action was being taken against me

is also of great interest and may be of even greater interest to Sheila... ( I would love to know its exact text)
Scans/digital pics of the docs you have are worth doing IMO.

you have never owned the vehicle and that RK at the time is now in Oz you would think that common sense would prevails and the council would close this down. but common sense has nothing much to do, if at all, with CPE.
the wheels will try and grind the money from you.
It is pointless and counterproductive to contact the council or the Bs at this stage. Sheila is your man smile.gif
Herbie
Which local authority does this relate to?

Have you spoken to the council?

You have said that the council knew that you had a c/o address. How did they know this?


Am at at a loss to understand on what legal basis the local authority can amend the name on the Notice to Owner after it has been issued?

I would certainly be contacting the local authority as they have the power under cancel a PCN "at any time"
bama
I think they may have issued yo the OP as 'the person appearing to be the owner' as they sent the initial appeal and council used those details .
hence my interest in the exact wording of that appeal.
endorfin
B
Enceladus
QUOTE (endorfin @ Fri, 22 Jun 2012 - 18:11) *
In response to Herbie, as stated in original post, I gave them the c/o when I made my original appeal. Notice to Owner has never been amended, it's always been addressed to me. As far as I know the real registered owner has never received a NtO.

But did you ever actually get the Notice to Owner? You imply not!.
If you have not had the NTO then I suggest that you complete the TE9 Witness Statement and TE7 Out of Time request. Tick the box that says "I did not receive the Notice to Owner / Penalty Charge Notice (Parking contravention)."

In your case you had a schedule 9 PCN. It was attached to the vehicle. Anybody can make an informal challenge against such a PCN. If it is not cancelled or paid the the Council become entitled to serve a Notice to Owner on the RK or the person appearing to be the owner. So if you did not receive the NTO you are entitled to tick that box even though you might have knowledge of the original PCN.

On your OOT request make it clear that you are late because you had no prior knowledge of the Notice to Owner or any subsequent documentation. And that you are not and never have been either the owner or the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. Don't complicate this with further detail or mention the original PCN. The original PCN is no longer relevant it is the Notice to Owner that counts.

So get the TE9 & TE7 submitted immediately. That will suspend bailiff action.

As to why the bailiff is after you? I find that the Council story is very suspicious. It seems to me much more likely that they did get a valid name & address from the DVLA. They issued an NTO against that name & address. What happened next I don't know, I can imagine a number of possibilities. Among them is that the bailiff has no valid warrant against you at your current address at all.

And BTW the warrant is unenforceable in any event if it is not against your current address. The Council should have applied to have it re-issued.
endorfin
Thank you, that's the answer I was hoping for, I will go ahead and submit the TE9 & TE7. I had a look on the bailiffadviceonline website and this advises this also.

Thanks very much, will post any updates here.
hcandersen
Over-complicated, but your concern is understandable from the perspective of someone who has not encountered an authority's stupidity before.

1. Fill in the forms and send them back. Do it now. Don't debate, do it. You are not the owner; you have NO liability. The only reason you're in the frame is NOT because of something you've done wrong, but something that the council's done wrong.

Only the owner is liable. The council are required to serve a NTO on one of two people: the registered keeper as per the DVLA register; another person appearing to them to be the owner. This is not simply someone whose name they have from previous correspondence.

If you can fax or email the docs, do it. Confirm with TEC that the warrant etc. have been cancelled.

As you've already told the authority that you are not the owner and as they know you're not the RK, then they may not serve a NTO on you. End of.

Is this clear?

After this is all over, you'll want to forget it which is understandable, but regrettable. It would serve other potential victims of the council's stupidity if you were to take action against them under their complaints procedure so that hopefully "more training" would be given to those who inhabit parking world at the council.

HCA
Enceladus
I assume the TEC emailed forms TE9 & TE7 to you. If you don't have the forms then post back.

You are the Respondent. the Council is the Applicant. You will need the PCN number and the vehicle registration number. The location and date of contravention can be omitted if you do not have them.

You can print the TE9 & TE7. Sign them and then scan them to PDF or JPEG. Then attach the scans to a suitably worded email. The email address is on the forms. Or you can use fax. Get the forms submitted PDQ. Tonight!.

However the TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court) is closed until Monday morning. So the bailiff has a window over this weekend. Do not pay him any money or it will become exponentially more difficult to recover it. Among other issues is that the TEC will say the case is closed because you paid the bailiff.

And under no circumstances let the bailiff into your house. And if you have a car, hide it.

If you or a family member have to talk to the bailiff tell them you have submitted a Witness Statement. And demand a copy of the warrant. I doubt if they have one, so if I am right call the Police.

These guys are professional bullies. Please don't get intimidated.
bama
what Enceladus said
do not open the door to a B under any circumstances, do not believe a word they say do not sign anything and do not pay anything.
if they turn up record the entire encounter as well !

plus

we still don't know why they have targeted you.
what exactly was in your original appeal to the council ? ?
endorfin
C
Enceladus
QUOTE (endorfin @ Fri, 22 Jun 2012 - 20:05) *
Just one more question, what address shall I put, I really don't want to give them my current address and since I can still collect mail at the c/o address I'd rather put that. Shall I still put c/o or just the address?
Both the TE9 form "Witness statement – unpaid penalty charge (Parking)" and the TE7 form "Application to file a statement out of time/extension of time" state:
"Proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against you if you make or cause to be made a false statement in an application verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth."
Having read that, I would supply my current address.

This is an advice forum. And anonymous. And I like to think we are pretty good at what we do! If I did not believe such then I would not waste my time contributing. It is not our remit to criticise or to lampoon those who seek advice. On the other hand there is no advantage in being economical with the truth.

So bearing that in mind, is there anything you might want to retract or expand on?
bama
we still don't know why they have targeted you.
what exactly was in your original appeal to the council ? ?
Lew
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Fri, 22 Jun 2012 - 20:31) *
"Proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against you if you make or cause to be made a false statement in an application verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth."


THINK CAREFULLY before you fill in those forms, councils and others DO check forum posts

from another forum re the same NTO

QUOTE
Originally posted by endorfin

I decided to try to appeal to the council's compassion by writing a letter with copies of my blue badge, but it was rejected.

A few weeks later I got a 'Notice to Owner' for the parking fine! I am not nor have I ever been the registered keeper of this car, so why have they sent it to me instead of the owner? There was no option on the form to say this so I ignored it instead of signing it.

Got a letter a few weeks later from 'Northampton County Court Bulk Centre' (google this court, makes some interesting reading, not convinced it's totally legal what they do) but again there were no options to say I was not the registered keeper so sent it back to them without signing it with a note explaining this. They returned it saying I needed to tick the 'Notice to Owner not received' box which I did.
endorfin
Hi Lew,

Nothing that I post on this forum, or the other forum that you refer to is admissible in court since no names, correct dates or reference numbers are mentioned.

However the fact that the council can potentially check these forums and work out which case I'm referring to has crossed my mine, they could potentially allow the comments here to influence their judgement so in response to this I will be removing all my comments forthwith.
Neil B
Sorry to interrupt and through a spanner in but I'm not understanding on what basis you are making a Witness Statement?

I understand it is a farcical situation but contrary to what you have said elsewhere I have to doubt there was no option to make representations against the NtO on the basis 'never was the owner'.

I can't see that you having sent the NtO back could possibly count as not receiving it.
Neil B
EDIT
bama
QUOTE
we still don't know why they have targeted you.
what exactly was in your original appeal to the council ? ?


I'm out.
Lew
QUOTE (endorfin @ Sun, 24 Jun 2012 - 00:17) *
Hi Lew,

Nothing that I post on this forum, or the other forum that you refer to is admissible in court since no names, correct dates or reference numbers are mentioned.

However the fact that the council can potentially check these forums and work out which case I'm referring to has crossed my mine, they could potentially allow the comments here to influence their judgement so in response to this I will be removing all my comments forthwith.


Believe it or not I'm trying to help you.

It's not the council you need to worry about at this moment in time, it's the courts

You stated A few weeks later I got a 'Notice to Owner'

If you send the forms back saying you haven't recieved the NTO then you are seriously asking for trouble, There are members of the legal profession, and indeed police officers that are members of this and the other forum which I won't name and everything is recorded by isp's google etc, so even if deleted it can be searched and indexed again.

Your best bet is to do what was advised near the top of the posts and contact Sheila on baliffadviceonline, she will be able to tell you what to do.

Yes it's totally wrong and idiotic the council acted unlawfully by not going to the DLA to find the registered owner, and even sending you a statement confirming they hadn't done that.

You were not liable liable for the fine as you weren't the owner, however you only have so many chances to appeal it and state this fact, and the NTO was the one to appeal on, they all have a section to tick saying " I am not the owner".

Because you didn't send the NTO back your now liable and its now in the courts domain.
UNLESS you can get the court to revoke the baliff action and send it back to the council to deal with/appeal you will have to pay, or seriously risk your car being clamped/towed and/or personal possessions even sold.

At this stage you NEED to get the baliffs off your back and stop worrying about the council, its the court and baliffs you need to worry about
endorfin
Your comments aren't really helping, if as you say the courts search these forums then you're putting it on a plate for them. Now I've already emailed the forms back saying I didn't get a NtO, which is true as I have never been the owner, I have put my care of address for correspondence which I am entitled to do so, I do not wish the bailiffs having my residential address for obvious reasons.

What would help is if you edit your comments to remove quotes by myself and the above post. I've received useful advice on this forum and I've acted on it. Once the courts and council have made a decision I will post back here.
Enceladus
QUOTE (endorfin @ Sun, 24 Jun 2012 - 12:10) *
I have put my care of address for correspondence which I am entitled to do so, I do not wish the bailiffs having my residential address for obvious reasons.

What would help is if you edit your comments to remove quotes by myself and the above post. I've received useful advice on this forum and I've acted on it. Once the courts and council have made a decision I will post back here.

Why did you do that? I pointed out the warning on the form and advised you to use your true address. And in any event it seems that the bailiffs already know your address or else how did we get to this point?

And why have you deleted your posts on here? Thus making the thread impossible to follow.

You posted on here to get advice to get you out of a sticky and potentially expensive situation. Folks gave up their time to give you good advice for free and you choose to flout it. Nobody has any issue if you want to query advice or understand on what it is founded.

On your head be it.
southpaw82
Enough. I have suspicion that you're lying on court forms and you editing your posts just reinforces that. Thread closed.
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