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cliveg
Sorry it's a bit of a novel but there are more than one salient points in there....

On the 10/3/03 I was down in unfamiliar west London attending a job interview. The interview had gone well and I was trying to find my way back to the M3, I turned onto Hampton Rd West (A312) just as the traffic lights changed, noticing that I had gone from a single carriageway to a dual carriageway in the process.

Immediately though I also noticed that there was a line of traffic behind me now, due to the fact that I had turned onto the road as the lights changed and so all of the vehicles that had been waiting at the lights, going straight down the 312 had subsequently joined immediately behind me. Also due to the fact that there were a number of vehicles parked on the inside lane of the dual carriageway we were all forced to drive in the outer lane, with me in front. What’s more the closest vehicle to me was no more than 5 feet from the back of my car, with windows down, baseball cap on backwards and music blaring, he was also making it obvious that he was very keen to get past me, moving from side to side of the lane.

With a queue of cars behind me on a dual carriageway it seemed to me like I was holding them all up and with no speed limit signs in sight I felt that I must be travelling too slowly so I increased my speed. But there are NO speed limit signs within a mile and a half on that road, (especially not as one joins from a side road) moreover the road goes from single carriageway to dual carriageway and back again 4 times without any speedlimit sign.

Anyway I did indeed increase my speed slightly, as it was though with a car so close to the rear of my car and parked vehicles down the inside lane I was concentrating on everything going on around me and not focussed in on my speedo, let alone how far apart the street lighting was placed. Then as the end of the line of parked traffic came into sight I checked my mirror so that I could move over to the inside lane and let the joker through as soon as possible. But instead the vehicle behind me was clearly accelerating to overtake me on the inside the moment we were due to become clear of the parked vehicles! It would have been most unsafe for me to either continue as planned to pull across to the left lane or to slow down at all with him accellerating behind me and with all of the cars behind him too. So as he was clearly committed to his dangerous manoeuvre, I obviously had to just let him go. Then almost immediately as I looked to the front again there was a policeman stopping both of us, myself and the sooped up Astra with personalised number plates and wide wheels. I was relieved until it became obvious that the policeman and his colleague were going to book both of us, not just the other party whom I was told was booked for dangerous driving.

The policeman said that I was doing 59mph and it was a 30 zone, though he said he couldn't show me the speed on the Prolaser II as the battery was flat! He booked me and said it will go to court.

It wasn't until November any paperwork came through to me, offering me the opportunity to plead. However in the statement of facts it states that I WAS shown the speed reading on the speed gun (untrue). Also the paperwork states that the speed limit was indicated by the fact that the street lighting was placed at less than 200 yard intervals! acknowledging that there are actually no speed limit signs within miles for reference.

So I maintain that seeing as the policeman was on the inside pavement of the road and that the vehicle overtaking (undertaking) me was between myself and the radar gun, that the speed of 59mph was actually that of the other vehicle and not mine. The rapid sequence of events leaves me with little doubt. If the vehicle behind me had been clearly past me then the officer would have had the radar gun trained on him on purpose, yet if he had been clearly behind me then the vehicle would never have continued overtaking me, let alone on the inside with a policeman in fluorescent clothing very obviously stepping into the road ahead.

It obviously all happened very quickly, that we both came clear of the parked vehicle, the policemen pointed the radar gun at me and the other driver zoomed up the inside and into the line of the radar gun.

I would certainly acknowledge that I was doing more than 30mph but am adamant that I WAS NOT doing the alleged 59 mph. Should there be any sort of proof or printout from the Prolaser II, or put another way what could stop the policeman saying I was doing 159mph other than the fact an old Citroen isn't capable!

I've pleaded Not-Guilty, any advice as to my best course of action to defend this...
johnnym10
Hi

First a history:

My brother is ex-CID Police Inspector and was stopped for going through a red light, which he denied. Two uniformed police officers said that they witnessed him doing this. He pleaded NOT GUILTY and went to the magistrates court. There the two police officers repeated their original statements that they saw him in his car go through a red light.

Now my brother is not stupid, he checked the timing on the traffic lights and asked the officers if they knew how long said lights took to change. They hadn't a clue. However there were two police officers saying he did and only my brother saying he didn't. Result: Guilty with costs.

Without wishing to pour cold water on your hopes of a proper result it is my opinion that if two police officers swear on oath in a court of law that you did something then it is nigh on 100% certain that the magistrates will accept that you did. Remember this isn't about justice or protecting the public its all about the bandits in blue being seen to do something other than drink tea in the police canteen.

Johnnym10
sjpage
Sorry but from my experience to johnnym10 is correct

They have had me twice and made up stories to fit the occasion

:x Blatant Lies but a coppers word is seen as better than ours
and if there's 2 of them well they cant be lying can they icon_evil.gif
should put them on lie detectors in court
Mika
Hi,

I tend to agree with the other contributors. However, if you are determined to fight this, it is possible to win at appeal. icon_wink.gif

My advise would be to save you money for an appeal; and don’t forget that, unlike the Magistrates’ Court Committees, the Crown Courts are not part of Safety Camera partnerships. icon_eek.gif
Pulpculture
Accepting what you're saying about not knowing where you were and lanes merging into one another etc I would like to point out, as you're not the first person on here to trip up in this manner, that the Highway code section 103 says "........street lights usually mean that there is a 30 mph speed limit unless there are signs showing another limit." So if it's a built up area and there are street lights - it's a 30 limit.
millasur
not very helpful indeed but me and a friend were talking about this the other week (I got stopped I'll probably post for help on it in a bit of time lol!)

me and full car of mates get stopped by 3 policeman -

so thats 5 on 3. (no equip)

however, + 3 for them being police, and -3 for us being young.

8 - nil then wink.gif lol.
James170
Cliveg. I had a mate stopped on the A12 with me - Vascar 114 Mph. He got out to chech the machine. In court Police man said he declined to view the Vasca machine. Me called as witness said - Yes he did. My word against the police man. Mag said - Case dismissed - Policeman cocked up his evidence !!

Usally they take the word of the Bib tho. Pity you have no witness to the Flat batteries.

Hope this helps a little

J170
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