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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
liveinhope
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2011
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - a5 aston towards shrewsbury (LC)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Clear sunday morning - before 9am - on corner before long wide stretch - camera van some distance away - my car had performance issues - hence do not believe at their stated speed 70mph.

received video by letter and other evidence - unsigned statments dated 26th April for trial 8th May.

Video shows car - also panning to another car - and just before speed recording big shake of camera. Distance 568m (1800 ft) away.

Questions - can the shake affect alignment and is this within seven day rule.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 05 May 2012 16:14:44 +0000
jobo
which 7 day rule are you refering too
southpaw82
QUOTE (jobo @ Sat, 5 May 2012 - 17:19) *
which 7 day rule are you refering too


One assumes serving evidence before first hearing under the CPR. Or under the CJA allowing one to object to proof by written statement.
jobo
i guessed that, but as they served it more than 7 days before thrial, i wondering if there is another one he is refering too

or is it the unsigned bit he is talking about
southpaw82
QUOTE (jobo @ Sat, 5 May 2012 - 17:24) *
i guessed that, but as they served it more than 7 days before thrial,


I did think that too but the OP does say dated 26th April, so who knows when they were served?
liveinhope
Sorry for the confusion

I was sent the video with other unsigned statements dated Thursday 26th April.

My query is with s23 (8) RTOA "not less than seven days" disclosure of evidence rule.

Is is 7 clear business days or calendar days - if business days the evidence would be inadmissable
southpaw82
Or even s. 20(8). Have they served a certificate under s. 20 on you, or just the witness statements? In any case, they can still lead it by producing a witness in court.
liveinhope

I had already received a Trial date

answered plea document which said if plea NG do not attend on Tues 27th March - a new date will be set - they then adjourned till Tuesday 3rd April - to set trial date - I received notice on sat 31st March - I could not attend because of short notice 1 working day.

Then a letter from MC stating 8th May - for the Trial to take place _ did send fax to explain and also request video evidence

Then on Monday 29th received envelope from CPS
Within the envelope bundle

1) Letter from CPS saying I (ie CPS) am required to disclose any prosecution material etc ... it does say if if you supply a written defence statement within 14 days any undisclosed material will be further reviewed.
2) edited video
3) letter stating Crown will be seeking to amend summons (as wrong numberplate on summons - just one digit wrong)
4) notice to defendent - proof of written statement - CPS wants to produce witness statements in writing - asked for me to send list no more than seven days after if I wanted them to appear in person
- the statements are unsigned with handwriten note that they have been emailed to officers to sign

Hence some of my confusion - I have 14 days or 7 days to reply to them - but this is later than Trial AND as you say s20 (8) RTOA says evidence for trial should be delivered not less than 7 days

southpaw82
QUOTE (liveinhope @ Sat, 5 May 2012 - 18:13) *
as you say s20 (8) RTOA says evidence for trial should be delivered not less than 7 days


No, s. 20(8) does not say that. It deals with evidence from a prescribed device admitted by way of a certificate. It doesn't deal with all other evidence. Have they purported to serve a s. 20 certificate on you?
liveinhope
Sorry to sound so stupid - but s20 notice?
southpaw82
Have they served a certificate on you trying to adduce the evidence of a prescribed device by way of that certificate? You mention witness statements, what do they say?

In any case you need to bear in mind that even if they have not complied with s. 20(8) they can still introduce the evidence as real evidence via a live witness.
liveinhope
They have sent with the proff of written statem,ent a list of CPR r27, CJA s9

West mecia witness statement Officer dated 3rd Jan - "he formed an opinion ... activated LTI 20:20 speed measuring device and speed of 70mph was recorded on DVD number"

Another statement at time of 11/9/11 on day of offence - seems to be one of the day in question - doe snot mention car just what he did on day and LTI 20 20 inofrmation

Insigned statement (restricted when complete) - no signature or date - combination of the two prior ones

Gone back to original summons included - this included stills.
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