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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Stephanie2oak
Hi, can you please help, I have received a court summons tonight for failure to reply to a FPN, having looked through the detail sent the FPN is dated October 2011. I honestly did not receive the notice, when I have read it in detail, it states the correct postcode but incorrect street name on the FPN, the summons is correct. I don't know what to d sleep.gif o, this attracts 6 points and I already have 9 sad.gif
odom
QUOTE (Stephanie2oak @ Fri, 27 Apr 2012 - 21:19) *
Hi, can you please help, I have received a court summons tonight for failure to reply to a FPN, having looked through the detail sent the FPN is dated October 2011. I honestly did not receive the notice, when I have read it in detail, it states the correct postcode but incorrect street name on the FPN, the summons is correct. I don't know what to d sleep.gif o, this attracts 6 points and I already have 9 sad.gif

What are the charges on the summons?

The good news though is that if you didn't receive the NIP and S172 request you have a defence to failure to name the driver. Are you the registered keeper of the vehicle, and are the details on the logbook correct? If you are not the RK, who is?
Gan
Do you mean a failure to reply to an S172 ?

If it had the wrong address, you have a defence

In any case, with 9 points already, you have to plead Not Guilty to avoid a totting-up ban
Stephanie2oak
Hi, sorry what is a S172?

I am the registered keeper, everything in order, but the summons says failed to respond to a FPN and failure to provide details. A copy of the FPN enclosed in the envelope shows my address but the street is in correct Oakmoor and I live at Oakbrook. I didn't receive this FPN, what shall I do and do I need a solicitor? Thanks for replying I am freaking out x
henrik777
If you didn't get it normally you'd be treated with suspicion in court when you tell them. However since yours is incorrectly addressed then you should have a pretty solid case.

A solicitor isn't really needed but given the tone of your posts i'd suggest YOU do. Try BBLAW on here as he has done well lately.

S172 is the section of the road traffic act which places the onus on you to provide the driver details.
odom
An S172 is a request to name the driver, named after the legislation requiring you to provide those details.

What are the exact offences for which you have been summonsed? (verbatim please normally they are "xxxx contrary to yyyy)
What is the address on the logbook?

It is possible to defend this yourself and we can guide you on it, but if you aren't confident with defending your case in court that's where a solicitor can be useful. Bobby of BBLaw posts on these forums and seems to be highly recommended by people that use them - bearing in mind how close you are to a totting up ban, and the massive financial impact that would have, it could be advisable.
Gan
I've never heard of the police sending a Fixed Penalty Notice to be paid. They can only issue an FPN if they've identified the driver which they're claiming they haven't.

Were you stopped for an offence in October and given an FPN ? This would have instructions to either surrender your licence and pay it or tell the police that you were rejecting it and wanted the matter dealt with in court.

If you didn't pay or reject it, they would have it registered at the court as an unpaid fine

Are you sure they're not claiming that you didn't respond to an NIP ?
Jlc
Section 172 (s172) is the form that is sent to the registered keeper to name the driver. You can easily demonstrate you didn't receive it.
Stephanie2oak
Hi thanks for replies.

FPN states = offence exceeding 60mph in variable speed limit on the M42 (speed recorded 71mph). Photo of the back of the car enclosed. FPN dated 20 oct 2011. I had not received this and note that the address on the FPN is incorrect.

Court summons state a hearing date in June, two offences 1x the speeding offence = points and fine. 1x failure to provide information as required in FPN = 3 points and fine. All details including address on this correct.

This is outside both the 14 day and 6 month period referred to on these forums. What do you think?

Jlc
QUOTE (Stephanie2oak @ Fri, 27 Apr 2012 - 22:09) *
This is outside both the 14 day and 6 month period referred to on these forums. What do you think?

If you haven't named the driver then they can't prosecute for speeding anyway. It's quite normal to dual charge and a common way forward is to plea bargain the speeding in lieu of the FtF. They have 6 months from the date of the offence to file particulars with a court - it would seem they've done this from the rough dates given. However, pleading guilty to the speeding will give you 12 points and a 6 month totting ban. (unless you can demonstrate exceptional hardship)

Therefore, if you want to keep your licence for now then you will need to plead not guilty to both offences. As noted they can't prosecute for the speeding but they will attempt the FtF. You will be able to show (with the evidence they have sent too) that you didn't receive the notifications - bizarre how they've got the correct details now though?



But like others I'm a little confused about the order of events... The normal process is to receive a NIP with a s172 request for driver. Upon returning this you will normally receive a CoFP (fixed penalty) at that speed.
Stephanie2oak
Hi, it is bizarre as the witness statement from the administrator in Warwickshire police also states incorrect street name. So all FPN details show incorrect street, but correct postcode. The summons details are all correct.

Shall I call police on Monday to state error or go straight to solicitor?

Thanks for reply.
Jlc
Unless you're confident enough I would seek advice first. However, ensure you use a specialist motoring solicitor - BBLaw is worth contacting and often frequents this forum.

BobbyBell
Stephanie2oak
Hi I will use BBlaw, do you know where they are based? Thanks
andy_foster
What exactly do the charge(s) and the statement of facts say? We don't need or want to see actual dates, addresses, vehicle details or other details that would identify you/your case, but the charge as you have described it is quite frankly either gibberish or there is a massive amount that you have not told us.

What it is about the 'FPN' dated October that makes you think it is an FPN? I suspect that it does not bear the title "Fixed Price Notice".

Without knowing the actual details, we can at best guess and provide dubious advice accordingly.

jimster
Could it be a combined S172/ COFP?
Aretnap
Failure to respond to an FPN is not an offence - you're obviously getting your terminology mixed up. Possibly you were sent a form which combined a s172 requirement with a conditional offer of a fixed penalty, in which case the important bit was the s172 requirement for driver, which does require a response.

An incorrect address is often the result of someone else naming you as the driver and making a mistake filling in the form. Are you absolutely sure that you are the registered keeper, and that you hadn't recently bought the car at the time of the offence? A lot of people think that they're the RK when actually it's a company or lease car. If you are the RK then you'll have in your possession a four page registration document issued by the DVLA. Does that show your correct address?
Stephanie2oak
Andy, thanks for the slap! Am probaly talking gibberish as in shock!

So, I have received an envelope today containing:
Summons, to appear in court in June. For two offences.

The first: in brief, failure to give information relating to the identification of the driver who was alleged to have been found guilty of an offence contrary to 172.

The second: my vehicle exceeding the 60 miles per hour in a variable limit section of the motorway.

Both offences carry penalty points and a fine.

Enclosed with the above is a copy of a notice of intention to prosecute, with my car details stating that it exceeded the 60 mph speed limit. There is also a rear view photo of the car. The address on this document is incorrect and I did not receive it until it was sent as a copy enclosed with the summons.

Hope that is enough detail, to get some advice.

Thanks once again.
odom
Hi Stephanie,

The really important bit we need to know is do you have the V5C (brightly coloured logbook) for the car, and if so, is the address on there correct?

As others have said no need to be shocked, it's not your fault if the notices are in a Royal Mail black hole somewhere, but we need exact, word-for-word facts to be able to offer you the best help. Laymans terms for things often have quite different meanings to the legal definition.
Gan
It's making more sense now

They've charged you with the S172 (failure to name driver) offence because they didn't get a reply. You plead Not Guilty for that because the form was sent to the wrong address and you didn't receive it.

They've charged you with the speeding because an S172 is such a nasty conviction that most drivers will plead Guilty to it in return for dropping the more serious charge. That's of no use to you because the speeding would give you 12 points anyway.

You're Not Guilty of the speeding because they don't have a form with your signature admitting that you were the driver.

What BBLaw can do is help you avoid an ambush. Prosecutors in this position have been known to ask the defendant if he/she was the driver and then argue that the admission proved their case.
Stephanie2oak
Hi, no I have a contract lease. There is a witness statement from the lease company stating they received, completed and sent back the info to Warwickshire police on 20/10/11, it states my name but does not state the address or anything. There is a further statement from an administrator stating the camera enforcement camera computer system was checked on 7/3/12 and I had not replied, it then states my full details and the incorrect address.

Hope this clarifies?

Thanks
Kickaha
Am I right in saying that the copy of the original paperwork shows the correct house number and the correct postcode, with the error being in the streetname (Oakmoor instead of Oakbrook) ?

In those circumstances I think that it would be easy for the CPS to argue that it shoud have been delivered correctly as the mail system uses the postcode and house number. i would think that you need legal representation to argue your case.
Gan
That's looking better if the wrong address didn't come from your own registration document.

Don't answer the question in open forum but expect to be asked how often you receive post with that wrong spelling of the address.
You've got more incentive than most drivers to not receive the form.

Is there a similarly named road where it might have been delivered ?
Stephanie2oak
Hi, I have honestly never received anything with the incorrect spelling as it's so straight forward. I don't know about a similar street name but will check.

The truth is I didn't receive it as I would def have responded - am very organised and respectful of that type of stuff.... Which is why I was totally freaking out in earlier posts!!
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