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UncleBob
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2012
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - B5493 Westbound, Newton Regis
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I don't remember too much of the journey but can't recall passing any speed cameras or mobile camera vans. I do recall passing a Police car coming the other way at around this location.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:33:36 +0000
BaggieBoy
Speed and limit?

There is a known mobile site at that location, so suspect it is a 60MPH NSL.
UncleBob
Hi guys, sorry I haven't put too much detail in the description but there's not much to say really, I was driving through country lanes, fairly average speed, not too fast not too slow, on my way home and the next thing I know I get the standard letter accusing me of speeding. I'm normally very good at spotting camera vans and the like and use a Talex which tells me where to keep my speed down but can't recall seeing anything on this occasion.

I wrote a letter back asking for the photographic evidence mentioned in the NIP so that I could identify the driver and the calibration certificate and details of the device used; they told me that the photo is from the back of the car so it won't help me and they won't provide it. I wrote back again asking for the photo and they stated that they don't have to provide the photo at this stage of the enforcement process; they did send me a copy of a calibration certificate for an LTI 20-20.

I have filled in the NIP and have received a conditional offer but there is a part of me that thinks that they don't actually have any evidence but I do remember passing a Police car coming the other way near the location, I'm thinking that maybe the Police are bluffing with this one but obviously I can't be sure.

I have another question regarding the conditional offer whereby is states that if I have 9 points or more then I'm going to court anyway, but 3 of my 9 points are now over 5 years old so is that OK? If I have to go to court anyway then I may as well fight it.

Is there anyway that I can plead not guilty until I see the evidence but then change my plea if needs by and still just cop for the 3 points?
jimster
QUOTE (UncleBob @ Tue, 24 Apr 2012 - 13:50) *
but 3 of my 9 points are now over 5 years old so is that OK?



That means you only have 6 points and will be able to accept the COFP

Unless you wish to contest?
Aretnap
Points cease to be active for totting purposes after 3 years, so the ones from 5 years ago are now irrelevant - you can have them removed from your licence for a small fee if you like, but leaving them on will make no practical difference.

I know some forces are feeling a bit cash strapped, but it's highly unlikely that the police would start sending out speculative NIPs based on no evidence at all. In theory the opinion of two officers can by itself be enough to convict you of speeding, but if they've sent a calibration certificate for an LTI 20-20 there's no obvious reason to doubt that that's what was used. Maybe you just failed to see the van, or maybe it was cunningly disguised.

At this stage you either accept the fixed penalty or you don't. Once you take it to court you can't change your mind and opt for 3 points and £60 after all - the penalty would be set by the guidelines below.


BaggieBoy
QUOTE (UncleBob @ Tue, 24 Apr 2012 - 13:50) *
I have filled in the NIP and have received a conditional offer but there is a part of me that thinks that they don't actually have any evidence but I do remember passing a Police car coming the other way near the location, I'm thinking that maybe the Police are bluffing with this one but obviously I can't be sure.

I wouldn't want to put a bet on that, if tyey say they have evidence it's very likely they have.
Transit man
What class of vehicle were you driving? If it was a NSL, then car =60mph, van = 50mph, HGV =40mph limits.

A fine looking straight for a bit of enforcement rolleyes.gif
Gan
You're not entitled to anything unless you've been summonsed and pleaded Not Guilty.

Using the word "evidence" and asking for calibration certificates is a sure way to make sure they don't send you anything.

Too late now but the correct request was for "any pictures to help identify the driver"
Jlc
Was a safety awareness course offered? These are usually available at upto 110%+9 of the limit. These avoid the points which might be useful at 6 points already...
UncleBob
QUOTE
Was a safety awareness course offered? These are usually available at upto 110%+9 of the limit. These avoid the points which might be useful at 6 points already...


This is the 4th time I've been caught and never been offered a course, my Dad's been caught once and he got one. You'd have thought that a course would be seen as a good investment for someone only half way through his driving career.

Thanks for the comments guys, it sounds like I'll have to accept the conditional offer, I never trust the Police on these things but have to weigh up the consequences of going to court and losing.
Jlc
QUOTE (UncleBob @ Tue, 24 Apr 2012 - 18:23) *
QUOTE
Was a safety awareness course offered? These are usually available at upto 110%+9 of the limit. These avoid the points which might be useful at 6 points already...


This is the 4th time I've been caught and never been offered a course, my Dad's been caught once and he got one. You'd have thought that a course would be seen as a good investment for someone only half way through his driving career.

Thanks for the comments guys, it sounds like I'll have to accept the conditional offer, I never trust the Police on these things but have to weigh up the consequences of going to court and losing.

Bizarre. They seem to offer a course - although it says you can't ask...
jimster
QUOTE (UncleBob @ Tue, 24 Apr 2012 - 18:23) *
This is the 4th time I've been caught and never been offered a course, my Dad's been caught once and he got one.


You should have asked your dad to tell you what he learned wink.gif
Gan
Never worked out why drivers who slightly exceed a speed limit are expected to pay £100 and give up a half-day for "education" while the ones who ignore it completely can write a cheque for £60 and carry on regardless.
Logician
But the slower drivers have a choice, they do not have to take up the offer of a course. FPN levels are likely to go up later in the year and that will probably make the financial cost much the same.
The Rookie
Because 4 lots of £60 results in you walking, also research data from the AA suggests that 3 points now loads typical insurance by between 4 amd 13%, a much higher penalty than the course, some insurers are even refusing to quote now for just 3 points (not many mind!)
Jlc
Indeed, interesting article - but if your current insurer does load it's probably a good time to look around...
UncleBob
QUOTE
Bizarre. They seem to offer a course - although it says you can't ask...


It was mentioned with the NIP but I wasn't expecting the offer, I think it's just a way of letting OAP's off anyway. When my Dad attended his course it was run by two old women who were volunteers and in his opinion knew nothing about driving; nothing learned.
Transit man
QUOTE (UncleBob @ Wed, 25 Apr 2012 - 21:31) *
I think it's just a way of letting OAP's off anyway.

I somehow doubt that.

QUOTE (UncleBob @ Wed, 25 Apr 2012 - 21:31) *
When my Dad attended his course it was run by two old women who were volunteers and in his opinion knew nothing about driving; nothing learned.

Not the normal response we hear about SAC's. Normally the opinion is of that they were extremely useful. Perhaps your dad is one of the best & had nothing to learn rolleyes.gif
Kickaha
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 24 Apr 2012 - 19:59) *
Bizarre. They seem to offer a course - although it says you can't ask...

It is difficult to comment on this given we do not know the alleged speed.
UncleBob
QUOTE
Not the normal response we hear about SAC's. Normally the opinion is of that they were extremely useful. Perhaps your dad is one of the best & had nothing to learn rolleyes.gif


Certainly is (according to him) but I'll have to take his word for it.

QUOTE
It is difficult to comment on this given we do not know the alleged speed.


79mph in a 60 zone.
Jlc
QUOTE (UncleBob @ Thu, 26 Apr 2012 - 17:59) *
79mph in a 60 zone.

Ah, that'll be why no course offered.
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