I parked my car on a single yellow line just before 16:00PM. The restriction on this road is that no parking is allowed between 16:00PM and 19:00PM but you can park at any other time. The road where the ticket was issued near Totteridge & Whetstone tube station (London Borough of Barnet).

I went in to the shop to buy a drink and came out seeing the parking attendant taking a picture of my car with the ticket on my windscreen. I told him that i am only one minute late and he was having none of it.

The ticket shows that it was issued at at 16:01 and that the car was observed from 16:00PM.

I am not sure if i should just pay it or challenge it. Isn't there some sort of grace period to allow people to get back to their car? What chance do i have if i do challenge it?

Scan (or photograph) and post up ALL sides of the ticket (and any other paperwork received)

- edit out your personal details and your car reg. and the PCN number (from the SCANNED version ONLY - do NOT amend anything on the original hard-copy PCN!) before uploading.

Ok will do that later today. Thanks

Challenge it - but let's see the PCN first as there may be more than the 'one minute' argument to run with.

I'm guessing you were had for code 01 parking in a restricted etc....

There should be an observation time for this. Arguably issuing at a minute past doesn't really constitute observation.

The London CEO's handbook states:

b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm. It should be stressed
that a vehicle in such a situation does not have the right to
be in place for two minutes – this is not a grace period.

Ask for CEO's notes, Photographs, Traffic Management Order and details of CEO's timepiece synchronisation. Not generally what they are supposed to do, but how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepiece, what with, when, and records of such.

Apologies for the late response guys. I finally managed to scan the ticket though one of the scans is not very clear (You have to view the full size to be able to read it).

I logged on to the barnet.gov.uk website as the ticket shows that you can log on and see the pictures that were taken. The picture is showing that it was taken at 16:03.

When i came out of the shop i told him i am only one minute late. I remember the ticket was coming out from his machine while i was talking to him and he placed the ticket on the car and then took the picture.

I am sure the ticket machine is not synchronised with the camera because it should not take 2 minutes to place the ticket on my windscreen and take the picture. What do you guys think? Can i challenge it?

Also, the time and date shown in the picture of the car looks a bit too sharp on the edges. I would have expected edges on the date and time to be soft as the rest of the image but it does not blend with the rest of the image.

Front


Back



Image

According their website there is no grace period. See http://www.barnet.gov.uk/faq-parking-appeals-q3
Does the CEO handbook override what they say on their website?

Do they have any other pictures on the website? A longer shot showing the context of where your vehicle was parked? A shot of a sign showing the times of the yellow line? A shot of the car without the PCN?

Legally, they probably don't have to have a grace period. If they want to play it that way they are going to have to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the timepiece used to determine that it was 16:01 when they said it was 16:01 was accurate. They will need calibration and synchronisation records to the second. Bear in mind that it is 16:00 from 16:00:00 to 16:00:59 It does not become 16:01 until 16:01:00. Council are going to have to prove that at the material time the device used was not so much as one second fast. If it was a second fast, it was still 16:00 when they issued the PCN.

Let us know about the pictures. If that is all they have, I suspect it will be a pretty easy win.

The only other picture they have on the website is this one here (i dont know if they have other pictures not shown on the site):



So how should i approach this? On what grounds could i appeal this?

Thanks

Follow Bagshot's advice and request the information, including the instructions in the CEO handbook

Unless and until they can show that the timepiece was accurate - it wasn't after 16.00 and Contravention did not occur

Also require the full log of PCNs issued by this CEO for the day.

Ok i written the following appeal letter. Please advice if i should change anything.

Thanks in advance

------------------------------------------------------
Ref: XXXXXXXXX
To whom it may concern,

I was issued a PCN on the 29/03/2012 from yourselves on the grounds that the following contravention was belived to have occured: "01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I wish to appeal the PCN ticket on the following grounds:

1. The ticket was not issued in accordance to the London CEO's handbook.

The London CEO handbook states:

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should not issue a PCN less than two minutes before a restriction starts.

2. The CEO's timepeace was not accurate.

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I did mention this to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. With this in mind, i wish to request that i see evidence showing that the CEO's timepeace was accurate. Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i would like to see details of the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepeace synchronisation specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

------------------------------------------------------

And his log because we want to know what he was doing just before he issued your PCN. With respect, you do not "wish to request" - you require the items and, as far as the TMO is concerned, in pdf, with all schedules, amendments and a signed and sealed copy. Also, you do not "wish to appeal" as you are submitting an informal challenge. As well as requiring the items, you should make it clear that you require the council to cancel the PCN immediately.

I would reverse the order of your priorities

1 The Contravention did not occur

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I pointed this out to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. He had already printed the ticket, attached it to my car and photographed it.
As the timing is in dispute I require evidence showing that the CEO's timepiece was accurate and that he did not commence preparing the PCN before 16.01.

Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i also require the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepiece synchronisation - specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

2 The ticket was not issued in accordance with the London CEO's handbook

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should have issued the PCN before 16.02

Out of interest, do you have a receipt from the shop to show that you would have been back at the car in time ?

No i dont think i have it. I will check later today.

Thanks

I just checked and i dont believe i kept the receipt. This is what i will be sending to them. Hopefully i will get a positive response from them.

--------------------------

Ref: XXXX

To whom it may concern,

I was issued a PCN on the 29/03/2012 from yourselves on the grounds that the following contravention was belived to have occured: "01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I wish to appeal the PCN ticket on the following grounds:


1 The Contravention did not occur

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I pointed this out to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. He had already printed the ticket, attached it to my car and photographed it. As the timing is in dispute I require evidence showing that the CEO's timepiece was accurate and that he did not commence preparing the PCN before 16.01.

Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i also require the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepiece synchronisation - specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

2 The ticket was not issued in accordance with the London CEO's handbook

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should have issued the PCN before 16.02

This is not an appeal - it is an informal representation or challenge.

Ok i have changed it to say that i am challenging the PCN instead of appealing it.

--------------------------

Ref: XXXX

To whom it may concern,

I was issued a PCN on the 29/03/2012 from yourselves on the grounds that the following contravention was belived to have occured: "01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I am challenging the PCN ticket on the following grounds:


1 The Contravention did not occur

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I pointed this out to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. He had already printed the ticket, attached it to my car and photographed it. As the timing is in dispute I require evidence showing that the CEO's timepiece was accurate and that he did not commence preparing the PCN before 16.01.

Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i also require the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepiece synchronisation - specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

2 The ticket was not issued in accordance with the London CEO's handbook

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should have issued the PCN before 16.02

OK, then at the end: I require you, therefore, to cancel the PCN forthwith and with immediate effect. Should you not do so, I require the following items.............................

Shall i relist the items i asked for at the end (notes, timepeace synchronisation etc)?

Regarding tactics, there are, as far as I understand, two schools of thought re requiring items. Some advocate requiring them before a challenge is made - very often councils regard this as a challenge. Others just challenge and state, if you do not cancel this PCN, I require the following items. I usually go with the former but it depends on the time involved. Whichever, it buys you time.

You must correct this mistake (originally made in Gan's typically excellent post (#14)) to:
The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should not have issued the PCN before 16.02.


Also ensure that all references to 'timepiece' have the correct spelling; it is not 'timepeace'!

Oops, well-spotted

Sorry

I usually let spellings go, as they make representations look more personal and less, "copied off the internet". I sometimes reasct to "curb" though.

I was quite enjoying timepeace. I'm off to enjoy a piece of quiet.

'react'
(just kidding, I won't make a habit of this...)


LOL!!! Me too...

Similar to my case please refer to below,

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=65622

I just sent out the appeal to an ajudicator, now waiting for results.

Might be the same CEO judging by the signature, pcn issued on 9:01am and evidence photo show 9:03am (issued pcn within a minute but took 2 to 3 minutes just to take photos?) . I am sure i get there at 9 to pick up my car and saw the CEO just riding away with the scooter. About that handbook guidelines, the traffic manager state that is use for guidelines but not mandatory on my reject of reprensaentation letter. Which i think is a bit nonsense.

Barnet council suffer a great lose on parking revenue, CEO need to generate more for the council. There's a few changes on barnet council parking policies such as hiking up resident parking permit cost £40 to £100, visitor voucher £1 to £4, and removing all parking machine to pay by phone. I can imagine people stop coming to the centre to shop and refuse to pay the hike up cost. Is like Killing The Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs.

No they don't. Their income from parking has "come under pressure" in their terms. The income is down by a million pounds from an expected £5m to around £4m. They are NOT making a loss.


And these changes are costing them money, but they are fairly confident that it is a good investment which will pay dividends next year as it reduces operating costs and increases revenue.


They have imagined this too. Their conclusion is that changing the goose's diet may have some short term effect, but that before long the goose will be laying more eggs than ever before which will be bigger and better eggs.

Happy Easter.

Going back to the beginning, you say you parked near T&W station. The ticket says 'High Road' which is about a quarter of a mile away (uphill !). The station is on Totteridge Lane http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/stations/1000237.aspx