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rex16
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2012
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - michaelson road, barrow travelling west (w), 319681 468495
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - travelling along (dual carriageway with a 30 limit) and suddenly the car in front brakes to about 10 mph, I pull out to overtake having no idea why he has braked, whilst overtaking the driver puts his hand out of the car window with a thumbs down sign, he then starts speeding up. I don't know if he has something wrong with his car but I need to turn left, I have 2 choices, a) slow down and be behind him, or b) speed up and get in front. I had no idea what he was up to so I sped up. When I pulled in front of him I noticed a mobile speed detector van in front and his irrational behaviour became clear, I turned off left (before I even got to the mobile unit) and cursed to myself!

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:36:58 +0000
jobo
speed ?
rex16
It says 44, which is probably fair as i accelerated to get past the other car. So gutted, as I never speed!
Mayhem007
QUOTE (rex16 @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 15:54) *
It says 44, which is probably fair as i accelerated to get past the other car. So gutted, as I never speed!


From your description of events you are relatively inexperienced driver. As soon as the brakes came on you should have followed suit. Then for the driver to give the thumbs down you should have understood the meaning, when combined with the breaking.

Generally sticking to speed limits is more preferable to kicking yourself.

We all pretty much speed at sometime. However, if you habitually speed then your going to get caught.

Mobile vans tend to park just beyond camera warning signs, however this is not a defence if there is no warning sign.

You probabely had 3 warnings to the camera van up ahead. From what you have said there is no indication of some viable defence You could ask for photos to help identify the location and the driver. Big no no to ask for proof. You still need to send in the s172 within 28 days identifying yourself as the driver.

Who knows the photo might show up something, but I doubt it, given the other driver slowed down.
rex16
lol, I'm very experienced, I've been driving for 21 years and have never had points! I have 2 track cars for speed, on the track. I'm probably the safest driver you've never met, I do not speed on the public highway as a general rule. Thanks for the reply though.
jobo
the answer to your question is prob no, arguing you sped becouse of the actions of another is very difficult

at that speed you over the band for a course, so it looks like 3 points and 60 quid
rex16
QUOTE (jobo @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 15:32) *
the answer to your question is prob no, arguing you sped becouse of the actions of another is very difficult

at that speed you over the band for a course, so it looks like 3 points and 60 quid


Ho hum, I'll bend over and take it like a man then. May the officer who decided to place the camera in a blatent safe area only to generate money have itchy groin problems for all eternity.
odom
QUOTE (rex16 @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 15:40) *
Ho hum, I'll bend over and take it like a man then. May the officer who decided to place the camera in a blatent safe area only to generate money have itchy groin problems for all eternity.

Scamera employees don't have any balls so it's an empty threat to them happy.gif .
norahl
Michaelson Road, Barrow has a history of collisions and casualties not made better by people overtaking vehicles that they see slowing but do not know why.
I would say the answer to your question is no.
odom
QUOTE (norahl @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 17:48) *
Michaelson Road, Barrow has a history of collisions and casualties not made better by people overtaking vehicles that they see slowing but do not know why.
I would say the answer to your question is no.

Except that if you look at the data there was one serious collision in 2006, and a small number of slight collisions mainly around the junctions at either end.. Overall the level of collisions is significantly less than you would expect for the VPD it carries. However, being an 30mph four lane road it is lucrative pickings for the scamerati, which is the real reason they have scamera vans there.
mrh3369
Alternatively they could just be enforcing the law.
norahl
QUOTE (odom @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 18:45) *
QUOTE (norahl @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 17:48) *
Michaelson Road, Barrow has a history of collisions and casualties not made better by people overtaking vehicles that they see slowing but do not know why.
I would say the answer to your question is no.

Except that if you look at the data there was one serious collision in 2006, and a small number of slight collisions mainly around the junctions at either end.. Overall the level of collisions is significantly less than you would expect for the VPD it carries. However, being an 30mph four lane road it is lucrative pickings for the scamerati, which is the real reason they have scamera vans there.

You need to look at the data that was relevant to commencing deployments of speed enforcement on that road; the relevant data being 1999 to 2001; deployments commencing 2003. It is therefore commendable that you have found so little trouble there after 2003 to date....now I wonder why that is.
One thing that will not help is darting past drivers who are driving within the limit. I'm sure the OP is now observing a slower and somewhat safer practice there and elsewhere since his brush with the enforcers. cool.gif
rex16
QUOTE (norahl @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 19:27) *
QUOTE (odom @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 18:45) *
QUOTE (norahl @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 17:48) *
Michaelson Road, Barrow has a history of collisions and casualties not made better by people overtaking vehicles that they see slowing but do not know why.
I would say the answer to your question is no.

Except that if you look at the data there was one serious collision in 2006, and a small number of slight collisions mainly around the junctions at either end.. Overall the level of collisions is significantly less than you would expect for the VPD it carries. However, being an 30mph four lane road it is lucrative pickings for the scamerati, which is the real reason they have scamera vans there.

You need to look at the data that was relevant to commencing deployments of speed enforcement on that road; the relevant data being 1999 to 2001; deployments commencing 2003. It is therefore commendable that you have found so little trouble there after 2003 to date....now I wonder why that is.
One thing that will not help is darting past drivers who are driving within the limit. I'm sure the OP is now observing a slower and somewhat safer practice there and elsewhere since his brush with the enforcers. cool.gif


Well, as the op has been driving for 21 years, never had an accident nor points in approx 450,000 miles, then no, I wont be driving any differently. As for darting past drivers who are within the limit, well I guess you had to be there on the almost empty 4 lane road, trust me, I'm a safe competent driver, yes I was speeding at the time, but believe me, if there was any chance of an accident I would not have been accelerating tongue.gif If anything the idiot who broke hard to 10mph was in my opinion driving like a complete spanner, I just wanted to get out of his way.

As for the road in question, I've been driving it for 11 years and its the first time I've seen a speed camera in position, the vast majority of the accidents on this road have involved shipyard workers, I should know, my office looked out to the road for many years (motorbikes in the accidents I'm aware of and seen) accelerating out into the road at 'rush hour' and misjudging gaps/wheelspinning into kerbs, generally not the fault of the traffic already driving along the road. Oh, and as for your blind reliance on statistics, the reduction in accidents is direcly proportinate to the reduction in shipyard labour over the years, not the fools with the speed detectors!... and before you start, I was doing 44 well before any junctions of shipyard gates, 4 lanes, 2 cars, no junctions, yes speeding but zero danger.

Anyway, please dont reply, you just fall back on your moral 'well you were speeding' and have a nice life. as I though I'm banged to rights, no I wont drive differently, just respect certain people less.
Transit man
You will always get great advice on here with relevance to the law & its idiosyncratic ways, unfortunately (but I must admit rarely) you may also get lectured, which of course does you no good & is not the point of this site, that's what Brake is for ohmy.gif
norahl
QUOTE (rex16 @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 22:57) *
QUOTE (norahl @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 19:27) *
QUOTE (odom @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 18:45) *
QUOTE (norahl @ Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 17:48) *
Michaelson Road, Barrow has a history of collisions and casualties not made better by people overtaking vehicles that they see slowing but do not know why.
I would say the answer to your question is no.

Except that if you look at the data there was one serious collision in 2006, and a small number of slight collisions mainly around the junctions at either end.. Overall the level of collisions is significantly less than you would expect for the VPD it carries. However, being an 30mph four lane road it is lucrative pickings for the scamerati, which is the real reason they have scamera vans there.

You need to look at the data that was relevant to commencing deployments of speed enforcement on that road; the relevant data being 1999 to 2001; deployments commencing 2003. It is therefore commendable that you have found so little trouble there after 2003 to date....now I wonder why that is.
One thing that will not help is darting past drivers who are driving within the limit. I'm sure the OP is now observing a slower and somewhat safer practice there and elsewhere since his brush with the enforcers. cool.gif


Well, as the op has been driving for 21 years, never had an accident nor points in approx 450,000 miles, then no, I wont be driving any differently. As for darting past drivers who are within the limit, well I guess you had to be there on the almost empty 4 lane road, trust me, I'm a safe competent driver, yes I was speeding at the time, but believe me, if there was any chance of an accident I would not have been accelerating tongue.gif If anything the idiot who broke hard to 10mph was in my opinion driving like a complete spanner, I just wanted to get out of his way.

As for the road in question, I've been driving it for 11 years and its the first time I've seen a speed camera in position, the vast majority of the accidents on this road have involved shipyard workers, I should know, my office looked out to the road for many years (motorbikes in the accidents I'm aware of and seen) accelerating out into the road at 'rush hour' and misjudging gaps/wheelspinning into kerbs, generally not the fault of the traffic already driving along the road. Oh, and as for your blind reliance on statistics, the reduction in accidents is direcly proportinate to the reduction in shipyard labour over the years, not the fools with the speed detectors!... and before you start, I was doing 44 well before any junctions of shipyard gates, 4 lanes, 2 cars, no junctions, yes speeding but zero danger.

Anyway, please dont reply, you just fall back on your moral 'well you were speeding' and have a nice life. as I though I'm banged to rights, no I wont drive differently, just respect certain people less.

You are right about the spanner travelling at 10mph; he was a tool of sorts. Trouble is spanners always come in sets and in differing sizes and types.
You could have chosen to escape the tool at a speed that was within the 30mph speed limit but chose not to and simply added to the number of mechanical aids in Barrow on that day; up to you.
I think as you have admitted being the driver and have admitted to driving in excess of the speed limit you have not given any room for advice on "getting out of this one" as you have clearly done it.
You could test the validity of the speed limit there but that is well tested as I understand it.
Mayhem007
At least you can now add to the 21 years experience that if someone brakes suddenly or puts the thumbs down signal, then there must be trouble up ahead.

Another one is oncoming traffic flashing their lights at you. Also if intend to carry on as you do, best check dual carriageway approach roads, wee little blighters tend to hide up there.

At the end of the day 3 points 60 quid, small price for the additional experience.
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