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Fishie
Hi,

I have just received a Notice of Intended Prosecution from the Hampshire Constabulary for doing 43 in a 30 zone.
The offence took place on the 9th July with the notification dated the 12th July.

Details:

Type of camara, I am not sure in was setup in the back of a van, located on a long left hand bend.

I have checked and the only 30mph signs are just before two roundabouts on each end of this particular strech of road, about 1.5 miles apart.

I aproched the road not via either end but a connecting road which was under a national speed limit sign.  I saw no speed signs prior to arriving at the junction.  I have subsequently revisited the road and have found the 30mph sign on this connecting road, but they are hidden behind overgrown trees, I have taken photos.

Do I have a legitimate case as the signs where not visible, and if so how do I proceed, do I fill out the attached form that came with the notice.
firefly
Firstly, I've moved this to the appropriate forum.

Secondly, can you post up the photographs?  If, as you say, the signs are obscured by foliage then you have a legitimate case.
Fishie
Thank you for moving this message to the appropriate area, how do I load photos onto the message board.
firefly
QUOTE (Fishie)
Thank you for moving this message to the appropriate area, how do I load photos onto the message board.

You have a PM.
firefly
Hi Fishie,

Have uploaded your images:



jeffreyarcher
That road appears to have street lamps.
Does the road that you were allegedly caught on also have street lamps less than 200 yds. apart?
If so, I doubt that these obscured signs will help.
The street lights tell you that the limits is 30MPH.
The obscured signs might be enough to get you a Burgess v West special reason for not endorsing, but I doubt it.
Dakota
Surely the terminal signs must be visible if one is entering the  speed limit for it to be enforceable?
mudmover
I am also of the opinion that the terminal signs must be visible for the limit to be enforcable, even for resticted roads (streetlights). The Association of British Drivers website has a very comprehensive explanation:

http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm

But if you would like some very good advice, e-mail Richard Bentley.

http://www.getjustice.co.uk/

cheers

Mudmover
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (mudmover)
I am also of the opinion that the terminal signs must be visible for the limit to be enforcable, even for resticted roads (streetlights). The Association of British Drivers website has a very comprehensive explanation:
http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm

Unfortunately, the ABD's explanation totally ignores the bit in bold.
QUOTE ([url=http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1259&view=findpost&p=8369)
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984[/url]]
85.(4) Where no such system of street or carriageway lighting as is mentioned in section 82(1) is provided on a road, but a limit of speed is to be observed on the road, a person shall not be convicted of driving a motor vehicle on the road at a speed exceeding the limit unless the limit is indicated by means of such traffic signs as are mentioned in subsection (1) or subsection (2) above.

Further, they have obviously not read the case law on the subject which supports the literal interpretation.
The Rookie
JA,
I understand your Caveat, but as the length of the 30 limit is 1.5 miles, and he joined in the middle, he presumably travelled about 400 yards (give or take) in the street lit area prior to being 'done' in which time having passed 1 or 2 lights I would say the defence was adequate in that it would be unreasoanble to expect someone to realise it was a 30 limit in that time as if repeaters for NSL (for example) were fitted he wouldn't necesarily have travelled far enough to pass one!

Simon.
andy_foster
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher)
The obscured signs might be enough to get you a Burgess v West special reason for not endorsing,
Fishie
My apologies for my ignorance and I have read the internet links attached, which I am grateful for, but apart from the two 30mph signs at each end of the stretch of road there was no other signs.  What are repeater signs and how often should they appear.  

To be fair the street lights were approx 200 yrs apart and speed camara signs were placed on some of them.
Broadsword
Hi Fishie

Have you managed to look at the PACE letter yet
andy_foster
QUOTE (Fishie)
My apologies for my ignorance and I have read the internet links attached, which I am grateful for, but apart from the two 30mph signs at each end of the stretch of road there was no other signs.  What are repeater signs and how often should they appear.  

To be fair the street lights were approx 200 yrs apart and speed camara signs were placed on some of them.


On a restricted road (30mph, streetlights), repeater signs (small speed limit signs - like the big ones, only smaller) are not allowed, with the exception of the combined speed camera and 30mph roundel sign (digram 880).

If the streetlights were more than 200 yards apart, they would be required at regular intervals, and we'd be advising you to speak to Richard Bentley.
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