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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
8late
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2012
Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - m876 dennyloanhead/kincardine motorway
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Clear dry & mild day with no other cars present at all. Was in inside lane of motorway. NIP for 80 on a 70mph motorway section. Are the cameras not above this limit? Not a single other car will be in the dvd (no photo sent) as the road was clear. I also had 2 people in my car who both drove on the journey.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:27:06 +0000
jimster
No idea what triggers the camera, but would doubt you'd get away with doing 80

If you have any doubt over who was driving you could ask for photos to help identify the driver .... don't ask for proof or evidence

Unfortunately speed courses are not offered in Scotland ....

you could also search this site for "unsigned" in Scotland
Jlc
QUOTE (8late @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 16:27) *
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

Ignoring the 'going unsigned' option for a moment - have you discussed the incident with the other drivers to see if you can reach an agreement of who was driving at the time? If you fail to declare then the offence becomes more serious than the speeding. (6 points + bigger fine)

80mph does seem a little harsh but 71mph is technically speeding.
Pete D
Sorry but "Was in inside lane of motorway" and "Not a single other car will be in the dvd (no photo sent) as the road was clear." Does not sound like you were not driving. As has been suggested ask for copies of photos to help you identify the driver. 71 is speeding but they use 10% plus 2 so 78 would have been OK. Did you see the camera van. Pete D
nemo
If you are able to recall the vehicle travelling the inside lane in little or no traffic, then the question has to be asked why you are unable to recall who was driving ?
Logician
Although anything over the limit is speeding, the usual level where enforcement action starts is 110% x limit + 2 mph, which is 79 mph. If the camera was set at that level, then you would be caught. It seems hard when you are just over some limit, but where else should the limit be enforced?

Despite what you may have heard, being unsure who was driving is not an easy way to avoid points, it is an easy way to get 6 points and a large fine.
8late
QUOTE (Pete D @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 16:49) *
Sorry but "Was in inside lane of motorway" and "Not a single other car will be in the dvd (no photo sent) as the road was clear." Does not sound like you were not driving. As has been suggested ask for copies of photos to help you identify the driver. 71 is speeding but they use 10% plus 2 so 78 would have been OK. Did you see the camera van. Pete D


Ticked unsure who was driving as we passed 2 overhead camera vans this day and we both drove on the 2 seperate occasions. Both times we did so the conditions (weather and traffic) and lane we were in were the same and this is a road we don't normally take as we were going on a trip. We also saw the camera vans on the 2 occasions, however I do think it was probably I who was driving however can't be 100% sure unless I take the same route again.
The point I was trying to make was they said it was on dvd so did not produce a photo to see who was actually driving and also I was suprised that they focused the camera on the inside lane.

I take it however from the replies that it wouldn't make much difference anyway.
Logician
You are better to make your best estimate of who was driving than trying to defend a s172 charge, which carries 6 points and a large fine. As this was in Scotland you also have the option of going the unsigned route (details can be found by using the search facility) but that is probably too much hassle when you are looking only at a fixed penalty notice and have a clean licence.
Jlc
QUOTE (8late @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 23:16) *
The point I was trying to make was they said it was on dvd so did not produce a photo to see who was actually driving and also I was suprised that they focused the camera on the inside lane.

no harm in writing to request photo's to assist in identifying the driver - however, the onus is on you and they don't have to release any 'evidence' as this stage.

The inside lane has the same speed limit as the outside lane.
Pete D
Request the photo's and hope they send them. A charge of Failure to Furnish is 6 points and a large fine like £500 and an MS90 on your licence will cost you a heavy insurance hike for 5 years. Pete D
Transit man
QUOTE (8late @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 23:16) *
I was suprised that they focused the camera on the inside lane.

Their ability to switch between 3 or 4 lanes is a very simple 1 second procedure, on an empty road, as you stated is was, they would "form an opinion the vehicle was speeding" before they focused on you, giving them plenty of time to ping you.
Jlc
QUOTE (Pete D @ Wed, 11 Jan 2012 - 08:35) *
You say you have nicked the box, are you telling us you have sent the NIP back. ?

I think the reference is to the NIP wizard... But if the box has been nicked put it back!!! laugh.gif
Pete D
Yes I realised afterwards and have edited the post. Pete D
ict_guy
QUOTE (8late @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 23:16) *
QUOTE (Pete D @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 16:49) *
Sorry but "Was in inside lane of motorway" and "Not a single other car will be in the dvd (no photo sent) as the road was clear." Does not sound like you were not driving. As has been suggested ask for copies of photos to help you identify the driver. 71 is speeding but they use 10% plus 2 so 78 would have been OK. Did you see the camera van. Pete D


Ticked unsure who was driving ....


I do hope you haven't just ticked this and sent it off? Else, you will certainly be looking at a failure to furnish charge. Have you named the other possible drivers?

If you are pretty sure that it WAS you driving, then you'd be far better off naming yourself rather than giving the ticket office the run around....it could get nasty if it goes to court!
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