Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Offense Code ( 176)
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
akram1958
hi I' ve recently been stopped for the 'offense' code (176) but i intend to defend myself at court, and not take the 3 points and 60 pounds fine.

on an zebra crossing late at night, i could see a man walking past the halfway mark as i drove round a bend . by the time i had got to the crossing the man had crossed completely. by "completely" i mean the man crossing had his feet on the other side of the pavement.

as i passed approximately 50 yards later oncoming was a a police van which swerved on my side of the road and forced me to swerve and scratch my wheals on the curb of the pavement & luckily my car stopped in time. I got out the car, and an Asian officer approached me with another officer on board. by the way the manner of stopping me is ridiculous as no crime had taken place, im a law abiding citizen the least i deserve is for the police to switch their sirens on and stop me but i was treated as some criminal in fact i say a terrorist should be stopped in the manner the police stopped me by swerving in front of me.

i got out the car and asked why have you stopped me? they said "do you know why ive stopped you" i said "i dont know" police officer said "ive stopped you because you've not slow down before approaching a zebra crossing whilst a man was crossing. The officer asked me whats that light color flashing pointing at the zebra crossing for? I told him what its for giving right to the person(s) crossing. i said that person had crossed already by the time i approached the zebra crossing.He asked me if i have points on my license i said "No" officer said"now your gonna have points and a fine" he asked me if i' ve been in trouble with the law. I said "no". i also told the officers that they're wasting their time as this is unnecessary stop. i cant believe why you stopped me. but he wasn't having any of it. He the police officer eventually issued me with a 60 pound fine 3 points and a producer. Now first of all on the yellow slip he has noted that my car is a 6 litre but its not its a 5 litre he has also stated that its a S600 but its a S500. There is no way in my mind i did anything wrong. the police van oncoming was too far to judge me slowing down or not. so i felt its just about meeting their targets and picking on someone to justify their job. I also have a member of the public who was passing by that witnessed everything and stated to me he is willing to come to court and state the man had crossed.i could not see any cctv even if there was it would clearly be in my favor so please somebody help me with this? how would i convince any judge against the police?

note Zebra crossings: As you approach a zebra crossing

* look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
* you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
* allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
* do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
* be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing
Any advice would be welcome.
jobo
im saying nothing

what the offence, not the code
AFCNEAL
Isn't a Pelican crossing controlled by lights? Therefore whether the pedestrian has crossed or not (or even if there's no-one there!) a car cannot proceed until the light flash amber?

Intro sentence says Zebra, Police refer to Pelican - which crossing was it?
The Rookie
Just to be clear, I am sure the officer concerned thinks you commited the offence, the fact he MAY be mistaken does not make it unjust or unfair or even an error of Policy, he is after all there to enforce the law!

Simon
NeverMind
QUOTE (akram1958 @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 03:43) *
haven't they got murderers theives drug dealers to be looking for


QUOTE (akram1958 @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 03:43) *
to justify their pathetic little job


You may just have failed the attitude test. It's always worth being polite, these guys are just doing their job. It may seem a 'pathetic little job' to someone who drives around in a 6 (sorry, 5) litre car, but it's not a job I'd want to do, to be honest.

Can you confirm what kind of crossing it was?
Aretnap
Forget about the minor errors on the FPN - they will be of no help to you. The magistrates will be interested in whether or you not you contravened the crossing regulations, not in what size your engine is. You need to concentrate on persuading them that the policemen are mistaken, or at least planting reasonable doubt in their mind. You'll also need to remain calm, concentrate on the matter at hand and be careful about your attitude; you may feel that you were treated harshly, but ranting about how the police should be catching murderers instead will not endear you to the magistrates.
jimster
QUOTE (akram1958 @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 03:43) *
as i passed approximately 50 yards later oncoming was a a police van which swerved on my side of the road oncoming and forced me to swerve kerb my wheels on the side of the pavement



Does sound a bit heavy handed if the incident was as described .....

Did the man on the crossing have to speed up for you ...... did the police talk to him?
Mattd
You need to describe the crossing exactly, I've never seen an "islanded" zebra crossing (I'm not doubting you).
IIRC there are 3 types of crossing which are Zebra, toucan and pelican. All have different features but alot of people will refer to them as zebra.

I take it the crossing has the markings across the road? What light features identify the crossing?
RDA
QUOTE (Mattd @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:11) *
I've never seen an "islanded" zebra crossing

It's the one described in Rule 20 of the Highway Code.
CuriousOrange
By "islanded" I assume the OP means something like this.




Mattd
QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:46) *
By "islanded" I assume the OP means something like this.


Fancy, we must be all yokels round ere nothin that fancy ;-)
Logician
We still do not know what type of crossing it actually was. If it was a signal controlled crossing different rules apply.

Highway Code

Signal-controlled crossings

Pelican crossings. These are signal-controlled crossings where flashing amber follows the red ‘Stop’ light. You MUST stop when the red light shows. When the amber light is flashing, you MUST give way to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution.


[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]


197

Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing, even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who are crossing from the other side of the island.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

198

Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

199

Toucan, puffin and equestrian crossings. These are similar to pelican crossings, but there is no flashing amber phase; the light sequence for traffic at these three crossings is the same as at traffic lights. If the signal-controlled crossing is not working, proceed with extreme caution.

akram1958
Sorry there is no island zebra crossing.... just zebra crossing highway code 19 and it is located on Devon road just past the junction with bow common lane bow east London . as the road bends approx 50 yards ahead this zebra crossing is situated is where I saw this man crossing from the middle of the road by the time I approached the crossing this person had reached the other side of the road when this police van swerved at me from the other side of the road approx 50 yards ahead of zebra crossing as described in my earlier post what should I do with this matter?and how I can I defend it in court to a judge please help!!!

QUOTE (Mattd @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:55) *
QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:46) *
By "islanded" I assume the OP means something like this.


Fancy, we must be all yokels round ere nothin that fancy ;-)

No not that one. It's (code19).

QUOTE (RDA @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:31) *
QUOTE (Mattd @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:11) *
I've never seen an "islanded" zebra crossing

It's the one described in Rule 20 of the Highway Code.

No.


QUOTE (Mattd @ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 - 12:11) *
You need to describe the crossing exactly, I've never seen an "islanded" zebra crossing (I'm not doubting you).
IIRC there are 3 types of crossing which are Zebra, toucan and pelican. All have different features but alot of people will refer to them as zebra.

I take it the crossing has the markings across the road? What light features identify the crossing?

Normal zebra crossing with a pole lit yellow on either side of the road code 19
NeverMind
QUOTE (akram1958 @ Thu, 12 Jan 2012 - 04:32) *
Devon road just past the junction with bow common lane


That'll be Devons Road then.

Here?

CuriousOrange
I'm not entirely sure how you managed to mistake that for a crossing with an island, which doesn't bode well for the rest of your perception of events.

Did this member of the public who saw the incident at the crossing and saw you get stopped by the police hang around until the end before approaching you or did he speak (or try to speak) to the police at the time?

Ultimately you either pay up or you opt for court so that you can see their statements and know exactly what you're up against. There was a recent thread where the police statement detailed exactly what happened as the OP had told it, which meant the OP was not guilty.

Fighting it in court won't mean any more points if you lose, just more money.

NeverMind
Did we find out what the actual Offence was?

OP - can you clarify?
CuriousOrange
Judging from this thread (incidentally the one I was referring to above), the offence code is indeed for not giving the pedestrian precedence on a zebra crossing.
NeverMind
QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Thu, 12 Jan 2012 - 12:42) *
Judging from this thread (incidentally the one I was referring to above), the offence code is indeed for not giving the pedestrian precedence on a zebra crossing.


Is it just me, or does anybody else find it odd that the OP's description of events starts, word for word, exactly the same as the other thread... even to the extent of describing it as an 'Islanded' crossing (when in fact it wasn't).


Probably just coincidence.



sgtdixie
Just a thought.

I recall a prosecution for this offence where the person crossing thought a car wasn't going to stop and ran the last few yards but was actually on the pavement when the car went over the crossing. The driver was convicted and the stipe commented that the pedestrian had their right to cross impeded because the car hadn't slowed and may have hit them if they had carried on walking. The driver contested he passed behind the pedestrian so hadn't failed to accord precedence. The Stipe stated that even if the car had passed behind the pedestrian, if the pedestrian had been on the crossing the offence was made out. (not sure he was right but that's what he said!!)

Is there any chance that this could have been the impression the Police had.
yen_powell
QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 12 Jan 2012 - 08:37) *
QUOTE (akram1958 @ Thu, 12 Jan 2012 - 04:32) *
Devon road just past the junction with bow common lane


That'll be Devons Road then.

Here?
Fame at last! I built that zebra crossing in 1995ish.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.