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mikey748
Following getting my recent case dismissed I submitted an entirely reasonable claim for my preparation time at £9.25/hour as per many other cases on here. Norwich Mags are not having any of this however and have quoted Costs in Criminal Cases (General) Regulations 1986 Part III and Practice Direction (Costs: Criminal Proceedings) [2004] 2 ALL ER. - http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/fil...s_pd_180504.pdf

This latter document only mentions litigants in person in the sections about VAT (XIV.11.1) which is really useful.  :?

Previously I'd quoted Costs Practice Direction 48.6 to them

http://www.legalex.co.uk/legalex/informati...tion/faq/8.html

and the Supreme Courts Costs Guide section 22

http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/YAWS/frmcosts_2g...g/section22.htm

but their response to this is that these only apply to civil cases.

From the other cases on here I'm sure they're talking bollox (again!) as they don't really know their arses from their elbows but i'm struggling to prove I'm right. Does anyone have definitive links proving a litigant in person can claim preperation time at £9.25/hour in a criminal (not civil) case?

Ta again.

Mike
andypandy
Maybe a sticky thread is needed quoting the relevant cases and guidance for claiming costs after a succesful defence.

Moderators can you compile this

Edit here is alink to another member and his cost claim[forum link]
Mika
QUOTE (andypandy)
Maybe a sticky thread is needed quoting the relevant cases and guidance for claiming costs after a succesful defence.


Do you mean like the information that has been included in this post?
mikey748
Mika, I had looked there before posting and all of the sticky cases appear to be for costs claimed by represented defendants.

I defended myself and the courts are refusing to pay for my preparation time as a litigant in person - I've found some references on here quoting the Supreme Courts Costs Guide etc that say £9.25/hour can (and has been) claimed but Norwich Mags are having none of it stating that this only applies to civil cases.
thamesvalley
I am up for S172 in about 6 weeks time ...

R-v-Cheshire Justices Ex Parte DPP covers a speeding case
R-v-Inner London covers driving a vehicle without insurance
R-v-South West Surrey covers something to do wiuth assult

Is there anything specific for a S172 case.  :?
andypandy
QUOTE (Mika)
QUOTE (andypandy)
Maybe a sticky thread is needed quoting the relevant cases and guidance for claiming costs after a succesful defence.


Do you mean like the information that has been included in this post?


Thats the one icon_redface.gif
Insider
QUOTE
- I've found some references on here quoting the Supreme Courts Costs Guide etc that say £9.25/hour can (and has been) claimed but Norwich Mags are having none of it stating that this only applies to civil cases


I'm sure someone on here had recieved an Email back from the Supreme Courts Costs office stating that yes it does apply to magistrates courts, now is only I could find it  :oops:
Insider
Aha!

Try Clicking HERE and have a look at this thread from Philwalker  icon_wink.gif

QUOTE (From the thread above)
Dear Divbad

Thank you for your e-mail. I now have the information to answer your questions.

1. Yes - where the acquitted defendant has been granted  a defendant's costs order under S.16 of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985.

2. Yes - unless the court has ordered, for some reason, that such costs are not to be recovered from Central Funds.

3. Yes - in relation to hourly rates and disbursements.

4. To the court where the order was made.

5. That the court might wish to seek guidance from the JCS who have issued guidance on the taxation/determination of costs out of Central Funds.

Russell Meek
Customer Service Unit
H M Court Service


Telephone: 020 7189 2000

-----Original Message-----
From: Divbad
Sent: 24 May 2005 14:54
To: 'Customer Services (CSHQ)'
Subject: RE: Magistrates Court Costs


Thanks for this. I didn't understand it. Please could you address these numbered points: -

1. Does the SCCO Guide apply to Criminal matters heard in the Magistrates' Court?

2. Does it apply to Administrative matters heard in the Magistrates' Court?

3. Can an acquitted defendant claim costs for a Magistrates' Court hearing on exactly the same basis as set out in SCCO?

4. How should a claim for costs be made?

5. How should a costs claimant respond to a Clerk that insists that the SCCO Guide only applies to Civil matters?

Regards,

Divbad


-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Services (CSHQ) [mailto:CUSTOMERSERVICECSHQ@HMCOURTS-SERVICE.GSI.GOV.UK]
Sent: 24 May 2005 14:49
To: Divbad
Subject: RE: Magistrates Court Costs


Dear Divbad

Thank you for your e-mail.  Hourly regional guidance rates for acquitted defendant's privately funded legal costs are the same as those provided periodically by the Supreme Court Costs Office for civil proceedings.  These can be found on our website www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk.
<http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk.>   You should then

Click on Legal/ Professional

Then in Further Information drop down screen Click on Supreme Court Cost Office

Then Further Information drop down screen Click on Guidance

Then Summary Assessment of Costs

Then Click on Appendix 2

Then Scroll Down



I hope this is helpful.



Russell Meek

Customer Service Unit
H M Court Service Unit


Telephone: 020 7189 2000

-----Original Message-----
From: Divbad
Sent: 24 May 2005 11:32
To: 'customerservicecshq@hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk'
Subject: Magistrates Court Costs

Hi,

Please can you tell me which costs guide applies in the Magistrates Court, particularly acquitted defendant's costs. A URL would be most helpful.

Thanks,

Divbad


This should help you, cut and paste the email thread into word, remove the 'Divbad' Name part for 'privacy' and print it out, and then ask the clerk which part of their anatomy they would like it inserting into  laugh.gif  icon_wink.gif
mikey748
Just recieved this back from the HMCS re trying to claim costs for my dismissed case - think I'll just give up which must be their intention....

QUOTE
Thank you for your email of 19 July 2005 addressed to this Unit, as we are responsible for the administration of the Courts in England and Wales.  

In relation to your questions the SCCO does not apply to Criminal matters heard in the Magistrates' Court.  The correct procedure would be for you to have applied for your costs at the hearing and then the judge would of decided whether it was appropriate.  I do not know if you did this in your case.

I can only suggest that you refer the matter back to the Magistrates' Court to establish whether you can claim your costs.  You could also seek legal advice from a Solicitor, Law Centre or your local Citizens Advice Bureau.  This website provides free legal advice, which you may find helpful www.clsdirect.org.uk




Yours sincerely
Insider
QUOTE
CRIME — Costs — Award of costs in criminal proceedings
Practice Direction (Criminal Proceedings: Costs)
Sup Ct: Lord Woolf CJ: 18 May 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lord Woolf CJ handed down a practice direction which superseded earlier directions and had effect immediately in magistrates' courts, the Crown Court, the Administrative Court and the Court of Appeal, Criminal Division, where the court, in the exercise of its discretion, considered an award of costs in criminal proceedings or dealt with Criminal Defence Service funded work and recovery of defence costs orders. The full text of the practice direction can be found below


http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/fil...s_pd_180504.pdf

QUOTE
References in this direction are to the Prosecution of Offences Act
QUOTE
Section 16 of the Act makes provision for the award of defence costs out of Central Funds.


QUOTE
Where an information laid before a Justice of the Peace charging a person with an offence is not proceeded with, a Magistrates’ Court enquiring into an indictable offence as examining Justices determines not to commit the accused for trial, or a Magistrates’ Court dealing summarily with an offence dismisses the information, the court may make a defendant’s costs order. An order under Section 16 of the Act may also be made in relation to breach of bind-over proceedings in a Magistrates’ Court or the Crown Court (Regulation 14(4) of the General Regulations). As is the case with the Crown Court (see below) such an order should normally be made unless there are positive reasons for not doing so. For example, where the defendant’s own conduct has brought suspicion on himself and has misled the prosecution into thinking that the case against him was stronger than it was, the defendant can be left to pay his own costs. In the case of a partial acquittal the court may make a part order (details are at paragraphs II.2.1 and II.2.2 below).

II.1.2 Whether to make such an award is a matter in the discretion of the court in the light of the circumstances of each particular case.
QUOTE
PART XIII: APPEALS TO A COSTS JUDGE AND TO THE HIGH
COURT PURSUANT TO THE COSTS IN CRIMINAL CASES
(GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1986, THE LEGAL AID IN CRIMINAL
AND CARE PROCEEDINGS (COSTS) REGULATIONS 1989, THE
CROWN COURT RULES 1982 AND THE CRIMINAL DEFENCE
SERVICE (FUNDING) ORDER 2001

XIII.1.1 Solicitors and counsel dissatisfied with the determination of costs under the above Regulations may apply to the appropriate authority for a review of the determination. Appeal against a decision on such a review is made to a Costs Judge of the Supreme Court Costs Office. Written Notice of Appeal must be given to a Costs Judge within 21 days of receipt of the reasons given for the decision (14 days in the case of appeals under Rules 16 and 17 of the Crown Court Rules) or within such longer time as the Costs Judge may direct.

XIII.1.2 The Notice of Appeal should be in Form A set out in Schedule 3 (adapted where appropriate) setting out in separate numbered paragraphs each fee or item of costs or disbursement in respect of which the appeal is brought, showing the amount claimed for the item, the amount determined and the Grounds of Objection to the decision on the assessment or determination.
Counsel and solicitors must provide detailed Grounds of Objection in respect of each item in accordance with Regulation 10(2) General Regulations 1986, Regulation 15(5) of the Legal Aid in Criminal and Care Proceedings (Costs) Regulations 1989, Rule 16(1) of the Crown Court Rules 1982 and paragraph 21(5)(B) of the Criminal Defence Service (Funding) Order 2001. Reference to accompanying correspondence or documents is insufficient and will result in the appeal being dismissed.

XIII.1.3 The appeal must be accompanied by a cheque for the appropriate fee made payable to “H M Paymaster General”. The notice must state whether the appellant wishes to appear or to be represented, or whether he will accept a decision given in his absence.

The following documents should be forwarded with the Notice of Appeal:
(a) a legible copy of the bill of costs (with any supporting submissions)
showing the allowance made;
(B) advocate’s fee claimed, fee note, together with any note or memorandum
by counsel submitted to the determining authority;
© a copy of the original determination of costs and a copy of the
redetermination;
(d) a copy of the appellant’s representations made to the determining authority
on seeking redetermination;
(e) the written reasons of the determining officer;
(f) a copy of the representation order and any authorities given under
Regulation 54 of the Legal Aid in Criminal and Care Proceedings
(General) Regulations 1989, or the Representation Order under S.26
Access to Justice Act 1999 and Article 3(1) of the Criminal Defence
Service (Funding) Order 2001.


Not sure whether the bit on appeals applies, but I bet it would bearing in mind they ain't used to LiP's doing nasty things to the criminal system  :wink: (like learning how it works)  :lol:
mikey748
Thanks Insider - Norwich Mags sent me a copy of this as well. They're happy to pay costs for travel, photocopying etc but flatly refuse to pay anything for preparation time. i've read and reread the practice direction and there's nothing in there to suggest a litigant in person can reclaim an hourly rate for personal time spent preparing - it's this bit they claim only applies to civil cases.

I'll guess I'll just concentrate on making everyone I know causes as much disruption as possible when they receive tickets........
Clear Skies
QUOTE (mikey748)
I'll guess I'll just concentrate on making everyone I know causes as much disruption as possible when they receive tickets........


My understanding is, the current exchange rate is..

 three new people trying to  win  their cases = one hour of your preperation time unpaid by the court.


thus if u have spent ten hours preparing for your case ,  you deserve
30 people attempting  to  get  the proper result.

seems quite a  fair  rate of exchange    smile.gif

rgds
Bill
ps where is that blue chaos button
DW190
Someone wrote/emailed the SCCO on this matter and was told Litigants in Person can claim costs for time and this applied in both civil and criminal courts.

Was it ivbad or Insider??
Insider
QUOTE
Someone wrote/emailed the SCCO on this matter and was told Litigants in Person can claim costs for time and this applied in both civil and criminal courts.


If you look a few posts above, you'll see it was Divbad, and I copied it into this thread from another, and that was from HMCS.....

WTF is going on with their bullshite, I expect it's a bluff & bluster move..
Insider
I'm digging deeper, this can be my little electronic notebook..

Costs in Criminal Cases (General) Regulations 1986
http://www.dca.gov.uk/courts/allowguid.htm

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/files/TONG.doc

Costs in Criminal Cases (General) Regulations 1986

Oh, and I think I found a useful one  :wink:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/4290.htm

QUOTE
Guidline Hourly Rates issued by the Supreme Court Costs Office

In determining claims for costs out of central funds, determining officers will have regard to the hourly rates set out in the current guidance from the Supreme Court Costs Office for various categories of fee earner


And another notebook jobby

QUOTE
Regina -v- Clerk to Liverpool Justices, Ex P Abiaka  
QBD
06 May 1999
Magistrates  
Once justices have made a defendant's costs order, it is not for the clerk to ignore it. If he believed it wrong in law, he should raise it again with the bench or a reconstituted bench to alter the decision or refer it to a higher court.  
 
[06 May 1999 - Times ] 
Prosecution of Offences Act 1985 16(1)


QUOTE
R -v- Liverpool Magistrates Court, Ex P Abiaka  
QBD
08 April 1999
Magistrates  
After a bench dismissed a matter, a later bench awarded the defendant's costs. He applied for payment but was refused on basis that it was not the same bench. It was held that it need not be the same bench to dismiss the charge and to order costs.  
 
[08 April 1999 - Gazette ] 
Prosecution of Offences Act 1985 16(1)


QUOTE
Regina -v- Southend Stipendiary Magistrate, Ex Parte Rochford Council  
QBD
10 May 1994
Costs - Magistrates  
Magistrates have full and sufficient power to deal with large costs awards, and may not send them on for taxation by other authorities.  
 
[10 May 1994 - Times ] 
Magistrates Courts Act 1980 64


Where's Cjm99 when you need him  :idea:

HELP  :wink:
Trotty
Well my claim for costs is as follows.

My case was dropped as the cps decided that my letters had satisfied them (section 172) but I neglected to ask for costs, so my claim is retrospective.

Sent first letter claiming £234, return letter stating cannot claim.....
Second letter highlighting the above rules (divbad etc)

Received letter thus;

Thank you for your letter regarding the claim of your costs.

I re-iterate that unless you are a solicitor or barrister, you are not eligible for the time you have spent in preparing your case, nor are you eligible for loss of earnings.

I have looked at the website you mentioned but this relates to solicitors fees in relation to civil work.  I have also looked at the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985 and Costs in Criminal Cases (General) Regulations 1986 again, in particular the rates of allowances to assist you further.  I enclose copies of the relevant legislation for your perusal.

You are eligible fo expenses which have been properly incurred, namely travelling to and from court, postage and photocopying (Reg23)

Regulation 18 permits you to claim for subsistance allowing for time spent.  You state that you incurred 4.5 hrs on travelling, waiting and dealing with your trial so therefore you are allowed a further £2.25

If you are still of the view that I am incorrect please alert me to the relevant legislation and case law authority and I will be happy to reconsider.

I look forward to your reply so that I can finalise the financial assessment.


Well, anyone any more ideas?????
nemo
Section 22 Litigants in Persons (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 deals with what can and can't be claimed:

SECTION 22 -- LITIGANTS IN PERSON  
22.1   Introduction  
(a)   A person is a "litigant in person" during any stage of proceedings in court in which he or she is not represented by a solicitor or firm of solicitors. For this purpose the term "litigant in person" may include a company or other corporation, a barrister, a solicitor, a solicitor's employee or other authorised litigator who is acting for himself. However, the term does not include a solicitor who, instead of acting for himself, is represented in proceedings by his firm or by himself in his firm name (CPD 52.5).  
(B)   Litigants in person have rights of audience in all detailed assessment proceedings. As to their entitlement to have an assistant present, see para 1.2, above.  
©   The costs recoverable by parties in respect of periods when they are or were litigants in person are governed by the Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and by CPR 48.6. This section of the Guide is intend to help parties understand the position. Reference must be made to the Act and the CPR if there is any doubt.  
(d)   The staff of the SCCO are not permitted to give rulings or legal advice on the Act or on the CPR nor to enter into any lengthy or technical advice as to the meaning of this Guide nor to recommend any individual solicitors or costs draftsman who may be willing to give advice or assistance.  
(e)   Advice and assistance may be available from the Citizen's Advice Bureau in the Royal Courts of Justice. Further information as to this is given in para 1.7, above.  
(f)   A litigant in person who is unable to obtain copies of any prescribed form needed may ask the Costs Office for help (see paras 1.5, 1.8 and 1.9). Most of the "N" forms mentioned in this Guide can be supplied free of charge.  

22.2   Costs recoverable by litigants in person  
(a)   The costs of litigants in person can be divided into four categories:  
(i)   out of pocket expenses (such as court fees, fares travelling to court, witness fees, etc) if they relate to work or disbursements which would have been done or made by a solicitor had a solicitor acted for the litigant in person.  
(ii)   Payments made to obtain expert assistance in connection with assessing the claim for costs. For this purpose a person is an expert if he is a barrister, solicitor, Fellow of the Institute of Legal Executives, Fellow of the Association of Law Costs Draftsmen, or a law costs draftsman who is a member of the Academy of Experts or the Expert Witness Institute.  
(iii)   Costs for work done by the litigant in person which caused him or her pecuniary loss (for example, a litigant in person who is employed losing a day's pay through attending a court hearing or through going on a long journey to interview an essential witness).  
(iv)   Costs for work done by a litigant in person which did not cause him or her any pecuniary loss (eg, the examples just given if the work was done during leisure time).  

(B)   In the following notes in this section costs falling within paragraph (a)(i) and (ii) above are termed "disbursements" and costs falling within (a)(iii) and (iv) above are termed "charges for time spent".  

22.3   Procedure on detailed assessment  
(a)   Generally speaking the procedure by which a litigant in person seeks to obtain costs from another party is as set out in Sections 3 to 17 of this Guide (briefly, service of a bill plus notice of commencement and certain other documents, obtaining a default costs certificate or, if points of dispute are served, serving a reply and/or filing a request for a detailed assessment hearing).  
(B)   Where a litigant in person wishes to prove that he has suffered financial loss he should produce to the court any written evidence he relies on to support that claim and must serve a copy of that evidence on the paying party at the same time as serving the notice of commencement.  

22.4   Calculation of disbursements  
(a)   The litigant in person will be allowed all his reasonable disbursements in full if the costs officer or Costs Judge decides all of the following questions in his or her favour:  
(i)   were these disbursements actually incurred?  
(ii)   If so, at the time they were incurred, did it then appear necessary or at least reasonable to incur them?  
(iii)   Are the sums claimed for each disbursement reasonable in amount?  

(B)   If, in respect of any disbursement the answers to questions (i) or (ii) is no, the amount claimed for that disbursement will be wholly disallowed.  
©   If, in respect of any disbursement, the answers to questions (i) and (ii) are yes but the answer to question (iii) is no, the costs officer or Costs Judge may allow a reduced amount for that disbursement.  

22.5   Calculation of charges for time spent  
(a)   The rules as to charges for time spent are more complicated. In order to determine them, the costs officer or Costs Judge must decide four questions:  
(i)   What items of work were done and what time was actually spent on those items?  
(ii)   In respect of each item, how long was it reasonable for the litigant in person to spend? The time allowed may be less than the time actually spent by the litigant in person and more than the time that would have been spent by a solicitor, had a solicitor been employed to undertake that item.  
(iii)   What hourly rate or other rate is it reasonable to apply in respect of time reasonably spent by the litigant in person?  
(iv)   If all the items of work for which costs are recoverable had been undertaken by a solicitor, what would a solicitor's reasonable charges have been for doing such work?  

(B)   There is no fixed rate at which pecuniary loss will be quantified. For example, a bank manager may be allowed more than a bank clerk.  
©   There is a fixed maximum rate at which costs for work done in leisure time is recoverable. The current maximum figure is £9.25 per hour reasonably spent.  
(d)   There is an overall limit on charges for time spent which can never be exceeded. The cost officer or Costs Judge cannot allow more than two thirds of the sum determined in answer to question (iv) above.

biggrin.gif
Trotty
Thanks Nemo, curious, what book, website  was this taken from,
nemo
QUOTE (Trotty)
Thanks Nemo, curious, what book, website  was this taken from,


Amongst others, this one.

Section 22, in particular.
mikey748
Been through this with Norwich Mags if you look higher up - SCCO guidelines you're quoting from only apply to civil, not criminal, cases.

QUOTE
Just recieved this back from the HMCS re trying to claim costs for my dismissed case - think I'll just give up which must be their intention....

Thank you for your email of 19 July 2005 addressed to this Unit, as we are responsible for the administration of the Courts in England and Wales.  

In relation to your questions the SCCO does not apply to Criminal matters heard in the Magistrates' Court.  The correct procedure would be for you to have applied for your costs at the hearing and then the judge would of decided whether it was appropriate.  I do not know if you did this in your case.

I can only suggest that you refer the matter back to the Magistrates' Court to establish whether you can claim your costs.  You could also seek legal advice from a Solicitor, Law Centre or your local Citizens Advice Bureau.  This website provides free legal advice, which you may find helpful www.clsdirect.org.uk




Yours sincerely
nemo
QUOTE (mikey748)
Been through this with Norwich Mags if you look higher up - SCCO guidelines you're quoting from only apply to civil, not criminal, cases.

QUOTE
Just recieved this back from the HMCS re trying to claim costs for my dismissed case - think I'll just give up which must be their intention....

Thank you for your email of 19 July 2005 addressed to this Unit, as we are responsible for the administration of the Courts in England and Wales.  

In relation to your questions the SCCO does not apply to Criminal matters heard in the Magistrates' Court.  The correct procedure would be for you to have applied for your costs at the hearing and then the judge would of decided whether it was appropriate.  I do not know if you did this in your case.

I can only suggest that you refer the matter back to the Magistrates' Court to establish whether you can claim your costs.  You could also seek legal advice from a Solicitor, Law Centre or your local Citizens Advice Bureau.  This website provides free legal advice, which you may find helpful www.clsdirect.org.uk

Yours sincerely

Game on then ! Last week I sent back my cost's claim to the Mags Court and quoted LiP (C&E) Act 1975 and CPR Rule 48.6. My claim was entirely reasonable (in my opinion, of course  :lol: ) and included time spent, mileage, printing / photocopying charges, subsistence (because they made me wait most of the day) etc etc.

In my case, the Mags did me grant a Defendant's Costs Order against The Crown but the amount, or indeed what was claimable, was never discussed in court.

I await their response with interest and will update this post with any developments  :D
Insider
QUOTE
SCCO guidelines you're quoting from only apply to civil, not criminal, cases.


Hi Mikey,

Thats what HMCS told you, and to be quite frank I'm not convinced at all that they are correct.
mikey748
Insider

Your not suggesting for a moment that the HMCS would deliberately lie and decieve to avoid the need to pay costs are you.... icon_wink.gif

They are very good at creating too many barriers to claiming costs - I for one do not have enough time to continue to challenge their claims (having spent many hours on this site in order to get off the original charge).

It is inconcievable to me that I can employ a brief at £100/hour but if I do the work myself they will not compensate me at £9.25/hour for either the prep or attendances in court to answer their bogus charges.

Having said that, I may be out of a job next week which would give me the time to take this all the way......

Mike
nemo
QUOTE (mikey748)
Insider

Your not suggesting for a moment that the HMCS would deliberately lie and decieve to avoid the need to pay costs are you.... icon_wink.gif

They are very good at creating too many barriers to claiming costs - I for one do not have enough time to continue to challenge their claims (having spent many hours on this site in order to get off the original charge).

It is inconcievable to me that I can employ a brief at £100/hour but if I do the work myself they will not compensate me at £9.25/hour for either the prep or attendances in court to answer their bogus charges.

Having said that, I may be out of a job next week which would give me the time to take this all the way......

Mike

But can you claim costs for work done claiming costs ?  laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

And best of luck with the job situation, Mike.
Clear Skies
QUOTE (mikey748)
.

Having said that, I may be out of a job next week which would give me the time to take this all the way......

Mike


was the ticket or the distraction of the ticket , in anyway responsible ? if so could a claim of loss of employment  be made ?

rgds
bill
mikey748
QUOTE
was the ticket or the distraction of the ticket , in anyway responsible ? if so could a claim of loss of employment  be made ?


It probably didn't help so I'll try to add it in if the worst comes to the worst laugh.gif

I feel that I should be safe as there is a perception that I'm a legal wiz here now (all down to the brains on here but no need to let those that count know icon_wink.gif ) so they're worried about an unfair dismissal case (is there an equivalent site for Pepipoo covering employment law :? )
Insider
QUOTE
(is there an equivalent site for Pepipoo covering employment law  )


Err, nope.
mikey748
QUOTE
Err, nope.


Better get a lawyer then - at least I'll be able to claim the costs laugh.gif
Clear Skies
QUOTE (mikey748)
QUOTE
was the ticket or the distraction of the ticket , in anyway responsible ? if so could a claim of loss of employment  be made ?


It probably didn't help so I'll try to add it in if the worst comes to the worst laugh.gif

I feel that I should be safe as there is a perception that I'm a legal wiz here now (all down to the brains on here but no need to let those that count know icon_wink.gif ) so they're worried about an unfair dismissal case (is there an equivalent site for Pepipoo covering employment law :? )


if in all sincerity it had some impact, you should say so..

2) unfair dismissal.. all sorts of new regs out, (9 months ) u have to be confronted by your boss /HM dept, to resolve issues .
There are three steps,  verbal writing and I assume a good kicking, if they dont do this, and just do the kicking, then u are in the money. However right they are to get shot of you and however wrongly u have behaved.

good luck in the search for new work, which should come top of the list.

rgds
Bill
mikey748
QUOTE
if in all sincerity it had some impact, you should say so


Very unlikely - it's being conducted under the grand banner of "Company Reorganisation" rolleyes.gif

Odds are probably 3-1 against it being me but you never can tell
Trotty
Well, just got a follow up letter Re; My Defence Costs Order.

I re-iterate that unless you are a Solicitor or barrister you are not eligible for the time spent in preparing your case.

I have looked at the Prosecution Of Offences Act 1985 and costs in criminal cases (general) regulations 1986 again in particular the rates of allowances, to assist you further.  I can see nothing which allows an unrepresented defendant to clain for case preparation.  Enclosed copies.

If you are stil of the view I am incorrect please alert me to the relevant legislation and case law authority and I will be happy to reconsider.

Well Boyz and Galz, any more ideas?  It islooking like this is a no go tho''
jj
Humm I was counting on getting costs for my case, and the officers should be charged with speeding and dangrous driving, we'll see.

my case should? be absolute as the summons is for speeding in a 40 zone and the zone is/was a 50 would the best thing for me be to find the MOST expencive leagal person and waste as much of his/her time to get the costs as high as possiable knowing the buggers will have to pay in the end?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=4231
Trotty
jj, good luck with yours mate, sounds like a good-un biggrin.gif   As for costs if you hire the most expensive lawyer all that'll happen is the lawyer will get richer (and you'll laugh) but you won't gain financially you may get costs for letters etc.  But, so far, (i'm still fighting) it would appear they won't pay for preparation.
Lance
You could try writing to customerservicecshq@hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk as per the posts on page 1 for further advice.
Trotty
Oh well, finally got a cheque for costs, after all the letters I sent and received, wait for it........


£43.  Now on the face of it, poor, very poor but I won and they've had to pay me.  So am very happy biggrin.gif
Quattro
QUOTE
wait for it........


£43.

Oh bugger

I have taken 4 days off of work for the various PTR's and trial dates.

I have driven 580 miles and have claimed for joining PePepoo!!

I hope I get more than £43.00!!



PS The web site for help on employment law is called www.JobiPoo.com
Blackbird
£43.
Stinks doesn't it.
thamesvalley
QUOTE (Lance)
You could try writing to customerservicecshq@hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk as per the posts on page 1 for further advice.



This will do you no good .... I got fobbed of with this !?!? Im sure the guys second name should be Loosome !!?!?  :lol:  :lol:  :roll:  :roll:



You will need to contact the court directly as we are not linked to their
database.

Thank you.

Winsome Sookoo
Customer Service Unit
7189 2718

-----Original Message-----
From: ------------------------------
Sent: --------------------------
To: customerservicecshq@hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk
Subject: Claiming of costs refused (R -v- Bedlington Magistrates Court)


Hi,

Operational Reference : ---------------------
Court and Hearing date : Bicester Magistrates Court --------
HMCS Ref : -------------------------


I recently put in a claim for costs after the case against me was
discontinued. This was for the sum of -------- and was sent to The Court
House, Warwick Road, Banbury. Most of this sum was for time spent in
preparing my defence. It has been refused stating Section 16(6) Prosecution of Offences Act 1985 and the case of R -v- Bedlington Magistrates Court ex parte Wilkinson (Queens bench division 12/10/1999. Reported 164 JP).

.
.
.
.
.





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Lance
I suspect you asked too specific a question, allowing them to say that they cannot comment on individual cases. I wonder if something like, "Can litigants in person in criminal cases in magistrates courts claim costs for preparation time, as per your website?" would get an answer.
mikey748
Lance

That's a similar question I asked them and got this reply

QUOTE
Thank you for your email of 19 July 2005 addressed to this Unit, as we are responsible for the administration of the Courts in England and Wales.  

In relation to your questions the SCCO does not apply to Criminal matters heard in the Magistrates' Court.  The correct procedure would be for you to have applied for your costs at the hearing and then the judge would of decided whether it was appropriate.  I do not know if you did this in your case.

I can only suggest that you refer the matter back to the Magistrates' Court to establish whether you can claim your costs.  You could also seek legal advice from a Solicitor, Law Centre or your local Citizens Advice Bureau.  This website provides free legal advice, which you may find helpful www.clsdirect.org.uk




Yours sincerely
nemo
QUOTE (Lance)
I suspect you asked too specific a question, allowing them to say that they cannot comment on individual cases. I wonder if something like, "Can litigants in person in criminal cases in magistrates courts claim costs for preparation time, as per your website?" would get an answer.


I asked the SCCO that question. Their response:

'The SCCO guide does not apply to criminal matters.

Short, sweet and not enough to encourage me to give up just yet wink.gif
Lance
Although that response was what many of us suspected, it completely contradicts the response given to Divbad by Russel Meek. Both responses cannot be correct.

QUOTE (Divbad)
1. Does the SCCO Guide apply to Criminal matters heard in the Magistrates' Court?
QUOTE (Russel Meek)
1. Yes - where the acquitted defendant has been granted  a defendant's costs order under S.16 of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985.
mikey748
So we're agreed that the SCCO guide doesn't apply and also agreed that it should..........sounds about time we worked out how to get this particular bit of legislation changed me thinks  :twisted:

Any ideas
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