Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Speeding Double Limit(allegedly)
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
haulme
Hi all

There was a short stretch of road after a 30mph speed camera.

There was a car in front going much slower under the speed limit, so prior to the road merging I overtook him.

In order to do this I sped up going over the limit for a bit.

The reason the guy was so slow is there was a policeman with a mobile radar gun.

I was pulled over and told that I was doing 60mph.

Out of conscience I would not do this(and could take a lie detector to proove if it was the case).

Speed Camera was calibrated until September 2012.

He took all my details and told me I had to wait till my NIP and Court Summons.

Now I will plead guilty to speeding but I can't say I was doing 60mph, as I don't believe I would.

I have held a clean driving licence for 8 years, have no points or convictions.

Another driver was pulled over at the same time also disputing he was doing 48mph when he said most he was doing was 40(I took his registration but not his personal details)

Could you offer some advice please and let me know if it is worth seeking legal council?

Thanks
The Rookie
First things first
You have no defence to 'speeding' but as your going to court anyway, you may have some success arguing you were doing a lower speed.

More importantly, where was this, can you supply a google earth link, many limits are not enforceable at close to their ends for a variety of reasons, so let's have a look!

Simon
haulme
Thanks for the reply

Here is the shell garage

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=...sa=N&tab=il

If you move up this road via street view you can see a 30mph sign

Then you see a read out where it tells you the speed you are going(I always read 26/27mph here!)

Further up you can see the Speed Camera.

At this point on the map where it says meadow view you can see the point in the road where I could overtake(ie merging lane as you follow A408)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=...sa=N&tab=il

Police officer was beyond this

Logician
There is no exception to speed limits for overtaking, even for the briefest spurt, although it may well be safer to minimise your time on the wrong side of the road, but you might find a sympathetic bench would take that into account. Your objective, if there is nothing wrong to be found with the limit, should be to persuade the court you were doing 50 or less, as that gets you into the next band down, where disqualification is unlikely.
Jlc
QUOTE (haulme @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 13:14) *
I was pulled over and told that I was doing 60mph.

Did you challenge the reading with the officer? Did you see the reading? Did you find out what device they used?

This speed is 6 points or a ban up to 2 months.
Logician
Can you check your map link - that seems to be in the middle of a housing estate in Lambeth. Click on the small symbol labelled link and looking like a section of a chain.
NeverMind
Are you sure that Google link is correct? I can't find a Shell Garage or Meadow View. And the A408 is miles away.

But my eyes aren't what they used to be .... wink.gif

Edit: Logician beat me to it again. Must type faster!
Logician
QUOTE (NeverMind @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 13:59) *
Edit: Logician beat me to it again. Must type faster!


Never mind, NeverMind!
haulme
QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 13:50) *
There is no exception to speed limits for overtaking, even for the briefest spurt, although it may well be safer to minimise your time on the wrong side of the road, but you might find a sympathetic bench would take that into account. Your objective, if there is nothing wrong to be found with the limit, should be to persuade the court you were doing 50 or less, as that gets you into the next band down, where disqualification is unlikely.



Thanks for this and this what I believe I may have been doing in order to overtake safely, and leave a reasonable gap. Last thing I wanted to do is overtake sharply and force the driver to brake.

Given that he was already going several miles under the limit, this is a long road and I didn't want to be stuck with a driver who could have been unaware of the road(my impression until I knew why he was stopping)

Also had I be doing 60mph, I was able to see the officer, brake and indicate safely into a road.

Really I can't believe I was doing 60mph

QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 13:52) *
QUOTE (haulme @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 13:14) *
I was pulled over and told that I was doing 60mph.

Did you challenge the reading with the officer? Did you see the reading? Did you find out what device they used?

This speed is 6 points or a ban up to 2 months.


I did challenge the officer, I took his Vehicle reg, time, date and his police number.

I did see the reading and immediately said I could not believe that. I did not see the device name and type as the reading was shown to me.

Sorry the exact postcode of the shell garage is UB7 7QP

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=...ved=0CB4Q8gEwAA

Links are working for me??
mrh3369
Not believing it is not a defence, do you have anything substantial to prove you were not doing that speed? If you were overtaking and spotted the officer you cant have been looking at the speedo so is it possible that you did indeed reach the aleged speed during the overtake?
haulme
I only checked when seeing the driver in front of me. He was doing 25mph which prompted me to overtake.

I do drive that road regularly(not an excuse to speed) and do know that a while after that there are traffic lights, so I wouldn't continue at a stupid speed either.
CuriousOrange
I don't think you're going to get the bench onside with the claim that 25 mph is "substantially below" the 30 mph speed limit and "I didn't want to be stuck behind him".

It's also a couple of hundred metres of dual lane prior to them merging, so I'm guessing that this was a matter of catching up and trying to get in front before the extra lane runs out, rather than sitting behind for a while then overtaking at an opportunity?

mrh3369
QUOTE (haulme @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 14:33) *
I only checked when seeing the driver in front of me. He was doing 25mph which prompted me to overtake.

I do drive that road regularly(not an excuse to speed) and do know that a while after that there are traffic lights, so I wouldn't continue at a stupid speed either.


As i said maybe you were caught during the overtake so whether you slowed down afterwards may not matter, the laser has a range of 999m so could well have caught you before you saw it.
sgtdixie
It is a racing certainty the device is an approved device and the operator trained in it's use. Unless you want to enter into a very expensive technical defence which is not at present evident, you are going to struggle if the speed limit is enforceable.

As you know the road well you know the speed limit and whilst 25 mph may be frustrating the 30 mph limit is exactly that, a limit. Not only that but the other driver clearly could see the cop so, so should you.

I would suggest you do not want to be in the position of giving evidence as double the limit on a road you know to be 30 mph to get past a car driving lawfully and attempting to provide an excuse often puts the magistrates backs up.

By all means look into a Newton hearing to try and get the speed alleged reduced, but what argument are you going to give? Unlike a follow, a speed gun gives a straight, and normally very accurate, readout. No interpretation, it is either the speed you were doing, or it is wrong, if wrong and you can prove it you are not guilty as the officers opinion has no corroboration.

haulme
QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 14:57) *
I don't think you're going to get the bench onside with the claim that 25 mph is "substantially below" the 30 mph speed limit and "I didn't want to be stuck behind him".

It's also a couple of hundred metres of dual lane prior to them merging, so I'm guessing that this was a matter of catching up and trying to get in front before the extra lane runs out, rather than sitting behind for a while then overtaking at an opportunity?


I moved to the outside lane to overtake him, I was doing 30 and gaining distance on him.

Getting stuck behind wouldn't be my immediate justification but if I am travelling behind a car doing that speed, then it is potentially unsafe for me and other motorists if I was perceived to be tailgating him or drop down my speed even less.
Jlc
QUOTE (haulme @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 15:44) *
Getting stuck behind wouldn't be my immediate justification but if I am travelling behind a car doing that speed, then it is potentially unsafe for me and other motorists if I was perceived to be tailgating him or drop down my speed even less.

So you unlawfully blasted past at (allegedly but measured by an approved device) 60mph so you wouldn't be tailgating as a safety measure? Just think how this would be interpreted by a court.
haulme
Ok Ive come to expect maybe a couple of things will happen.

I will need to appeal at court regarding my sentencing and justification for not having a ban from driving and receive points.

I assume I will be looking at 6 but what is the chance they will drop this to 3 based on circumstances(expect 0%)

I will wait and Ill put the details of the NIP when it arrives also.

jimster
You've had your NIP verbally

The next thing you'll get is a summons
Jlc
QUOTE (haulme @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 15:54) *
I assume I will be looking at 6 but what is the chance they will drop this to 3 based on circumstances(expect 0%)

Sentencing guidelines say 6 points OR 7-56 days ban. Fine will depend on your earnings.
CuriousOrange
QUOTE (haulme @ Fri, 6 Jan 2012 - 15:44) *
if I am travelling behind a car doing that speed, then it is potentially unsafe for me and other motorists if I was perceived to be tailgating him or drop down my speed even less.


So far there's been "25 mph is substantially less than the speed limit" and now "if I don't overtake I have to either go slower than him or tailgate". You need a totally different approach if you want to get in the good books of the bench.

Your chances of arguing that what you did was a safety measure of any sort or earning less points due to the 'circumstances' are zero, like you say.

You're best off either to try and argue your speed down and/or throw yourself on their mercy, full of contrition and apologies (not justifications).

haulme
Hi all

Just a bump on this thread please.

I still haven't received a summons or any indication from the police or court of intended prosecution.

How long should I still be waiting? Up to six months?

Thanks

The Rookie
Yes, it's not unusual for the summons to arrive at around the 6 month mark, bearing in mind the information has to be laid within 6 months but the summons may take another 3-4 weeks to arrive.

Simon
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.