Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: PCN FOR REVERSING OUT OF 1-WAY STREET
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Pages: 1, 2, 3
axminster
Hello there,

I recently reversed out of this road onto a main road, because the road, a one way street with a single carriageway to pass was blocked by a Thames Water Drainage Company Van who were carrying out sewer repair works. If I stayed there I would have had to wait for over 30 mins and more. There is a blue one-way sign which is obscured in picture 2.

Please advise how I can present my appeal on this?

Thanks



Enceladus
Please post up entire pages and please un-obscure the location and date & time info. Just obscure your name & address, PCN number and car reg. Also any Council / Enforcement Authority info such as the CEO number should be left visible.
And are there any pages missing?
Is that a cloud of water from a burst main in the middle photo?

The depths that Newham will sink to.
axminster
zamzara
"Should take one of the following actions".... ? This is pants. The PCN is required to state that it must be paid before the end of 28 days.

Also although sign 652 (one way) is mentioned in Schedule 3 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, I cannot find anywhere that it actually carries any statutory prohibition. The sign that clearly does is sign 616 (no entry), but you did not violate that. See this thread for comparison.

Without a clear definition in a statute of what prohibition sign 652 carries, I cannot see how it can be enforced, even in spite of it appearing in Sch 3. For example, there is presumably no prohibition on reversing into a parking space in a one-way street. In other words there is no defintion of one-way traffic.
SchoolRunMum
It may be worth getting the Traffic Order for that street - if you have time this week then call into the main Council offices and ask for a copy of the Order, or email for it tomorrow (I wouldn't even mention the PCN in case your request is confused with your appeal). Don't lose sight of your deadline and don't allow them to delay the Order, get it and see if there is any prohibition of 'de minimis' reversing within the street.
axminster
Heres the text of the traffic order in 2004. Please advise what I can do?

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/573...1;to=2007-01-02

Date:
28 July 2004
Issue Number:
57367
Page number:
9512

Publication Date: Wednesday, 28 July 2004

Notice Code: 1501

London Borough of Newham

CHAUCER ROAD AREA, LONDON E7

1. Notice is hereby given that the Council of the London Borough of Newham on 26 July 2004, made (a) the Newham (Prescribed Routes) (No 3) Traffic Order 2004 under section 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended by the Local Government Act 1985, and (b) the Newham (20 mph Speed Limit) (No 5) Traffic Order 2004 under section 84(1)(a) and (2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended by the Local Government Act 1985.
2. The general effect of the Prescribed Routes Order will be to impose one-way working for vehicular traffic in the roads and length of road specified in Schedule 1 to this notice.
3. The general effect of the Speed Limit Order will be to impose a maximum speed limit of 20 mph for motor vehicles in the roads specified in Schedule 2 to this notice.
4. Copies of the Orders, which will come into force on 2 August 2004, and of documents giving more detailed particulars of the Orders are available for inspection during normal office hours until 6 weeks from the date on which the Orders come into force on Mondays to Fridays inclusive at the Council’s offices at 25 Nelson Street, East Ham, London E6 6EH. Copies of the Orders may be obtained from this address.
5. If any person wishes to question the validity of the Prescribed Route Order or of any of its provisions on the grounds that it or they are not within the powers conferred by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 or that any requirement of the Act or of any instrument made under the Act has not been complied with, that person may, within 6 weeks from the date on which the Order was made, apply for the purpose to the High Court.

Divisional Director, Environmental Engineering (The Officer appointed for this purpose).

Schedule 1
Road Direction of one-way working
Chaucer Road From west to east
Dunbar Road From west to east
Gower Road From east to west
Skelton Road From east to west
Wyatt Road, between the southern kerbline of Skelton Road and the junction with Upton Lane From north to south

Schedule 2
1. Chaucer Road
2. Dunbar Road
3. Gower Road
4. Skelton Road
5. Wyatt Road

28 July 2004.

(115)

Neil B
QUOTE (axminster @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 12:20) *
Chaucer Road From west to east


It would help if you had the right order!!!! SV shows ^^ that ^^

but clearly flow has since been reversed.

---

I also agree it's a farcical situation. Exactly how far up the road did you get? It looks virtually nil but it's hard to tel if images start when you were reversing or moving forward.

Viewed the vid??
axminster
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 12:42) *
QUOTE (axminster @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 12:20) *
Chaucer Road From west to east


It would help if you had the right order!!!! SV shows ^^ that ^^

but clearly flow has since been reversed.

---

I also agree it's a farcical situation. Exactly how far up the road did you get? It looks virtually nil but it's hard to tel if images start when you were reversing or moving forward.

Viewed the vid??


I havent viewed the vid but the Traffic Order I believe is correct, they haven't been any Traffic Orders after as far as I'm aware. The incident happened on Gower Road where onw-way system goes east to west, and I did get up the road to near mid way well past the view of the camera.
Enceladus
What location is on the PCN? You have blanked it out!
clark_kent
Isn't the contravention wrong? Preceeding in the wrong direction left, right or ahead only is a round sign hence the (d) one way traffic is 32w?
bama
That is NOT the text of the Traffic Order.
It is merely the Notice of Proposals.

get the Traffic Order.
axminster
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 01:27) *
It may be worth getting the Traffic Order for that street - if you have time this week then call into the main Council offices and ask for a copy of the Order, or email for it tomorrow (I wouldn't even mention the PCN in case your request is confused with your appeal). Don't lose sight of your deadline and don't allow them to delay the Order, get it and see if there is any prohibition of 'de minimis' reversing within the street.


HI Please can you view this traffic order attached as a PDF?

The Location of the offence is Gower Road.

How should I proceed? Thanks
axminster
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 16:46) *
Isn't the contravention wrong? Preceeding in the wrong direction left, right or ahead only is a round sign hence the (d) one way traffic is 32w?



Yes the sign on the post is a blue square sign with a vertical arrow, so it should be 32w. Is this grounds for an appeal, and if it is will they respond by then sending me aticket with the correct offence?

Also do I need to send in the appeal withing 14 days to preserve the £65 charge?

Also on the back of the form it says that they will consider exercising their discretion and may cancel the penalty charge if there are suitable mitigating circumstances....do you think my reason as the road was blocked by a sewage company vehicle will be considered?


Thanks for your help.

I need to send this in today as 14 days will be up by the time I post it. Any replies advice will be appreciated. thanks
zamzara
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 16:46) *
Isn't the contravention wrong? Preceeding in the wrong direction left, right or ahead only is a round sign hence the (d) one way traffic is 32w?


I did wonder about that, but as the codes don't have any legal force, the description given seems to adequately cover both types of sign - there is perhaps a question of whether it is specific enough though.

If there is a traffic order then my above post (about the meaning of the signs) is probably wrong unfortunately.
axminster
Thanks Zamzara, btw I've attached the traffic managment order above in post no. 12.
Enceladus
I am uncomfortable that you were spotted on CCTV at all. Why would they be looking there unless it is a hotspot for traffic contraventions or maybe they know it was an "opportunity"?

Surely this must boil down to reasonableness and proportionality.
If for example, the road was blocked by a bus at a bus stop or a refuse truck collecting bins or a Council sweeper truck sweeping then it would be unreasonable not to wait until it was safe to pass or proceed.

In this case the road was found to be unexpectedly blocked by a statutory undertaker repairing, presumably an emergency repair, to a public utility. Specifically Thames Water repairing a broken sewer. It was impossible to comply with the one way restriction. You had no other option but to back out onto the main road in a safe manner.
(I am not sure how it works now, but it certainly used to be the case that a statutory undertaker dug up the road first and got Council permission retrospectively. IE. a formality.)

So write to Newham and tell them that. Insist that they cancel the PCN. Ask them to check their records if they wish to confirm the sewer repair. Point out that it would clearly not be in the interests of justice to continue to enforce the PCN. And ask them to justify doing so if they decline to cancel the PCN as you will be appealing the matter to PATAS.

Keep it short and simple. Remember the lowest common denominator will be reading it.
clark_kent
The suffix has no legal standing but it has been used so why would the owner assume it was incorrect? This is a postal PCN sent to the keeper who has looked up 32d and is now confused as there are no directional signs in the street, it is wrong. Why should the keeper have to guess what he has done wrong its bad enough not stating the sign ie turn left only, turn right only, ahead only but to fail to put its a one way street is a complete fail by the person who issued the PCN.
zamzara
Good points from CK.

I would definitely try a first representation on the basis of the road being blocked (appeal to reason), and we can save everything else for the next stage.
hcandersen
Have you viewed the video and if so is the sewage vehicle visible?

Other than for the basic, but strong, argument about the contravention, if you're to convince an adj that you were prevented from driving along the road then you'll need some evidence. Start with the video. Even if the other vehicle cannot be seen, is your manoeuvre consistent with what a driver would do in those circumstances?


HCA
axminster
thanks for all the replies, I had to send this in today so faxed and posted it as well. Reply was along the lines of the road was unpassable and me being left no choice but to wait hours or reverse out, so letter was appealing to reason, I've provided them the Thames water ref. no of the emergency works being carried out on that day at that time. Hopefully they'll see reason. will update you in future. thanks once again.
axminster
I can't believe this as Newham have sent me a Charge Certificate demanding £195 ohmy.gif

Back in December I reversed out of a one way street as Thames Water were carrying out sewage drainage works. I received a PCN by post to which I appealed within 14 days.

The truth is I didn't receive a response to my appeal letter from Newham at all, I was waiting for the post every day! Had I received a rejection from Newham I would've gone to PATAS as advised here as I thought I had a good chance of winning the appeal with the thames water reference proving that they were working there.

I phoned Newham up to ask what had happened after receiving the Charge Certificate and they said that my appeal to them had been received within 14 days BUT later rejected, back in February. I said that I received no rejection letter but then they dithered a bit on the phone and called me back later and said that all they could do was reverse it one stage back so I'd pay£130

So I've asked them to allow me some time to think. I thought I had a good chance of winning as I quoted the thames water reference number proving that they were working there.

Newham have said I should appeal when they send me the next notice about going to court.

What should I do, Please help? Thanks for reading.
Enceladus
When exactly did you submit your representations?
And by what means?

My advice is not to contact the Council. Any phone conversations are not worth the paper they are not written on.
Wait for the next stage which is the Order for Recovery, complete the Statutory Declaration and submit to PATAS. Newham will have to either cancel or refer the matter to PATAS.
Tick the box that says "I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice."

Be aware that you will have to get the form witnessed. This can be done free of charge by most officers of your local County Court during opening hours. Else a solicitor will charge £5-£10.

Another piece of glorious incompetence by the London Borough of Newham. A complete waste of time for everybody and funded by the taxpayers. What a joke. Don't loose heart, keep at it.

axminster
do
axminster
I wrote the following in my appeal:

"Please can you consider the following circumstances. On the 5th of December 2011 at the time of the contravention Thames Water under reference ####### were carrying out repairs due to waste water leaking at overflowing manhole in the middle of Gower Road E7 9NG & E7 9NG. A yellow contractor vehicle owned by MTS was parked in the middle of the road and had blocked the road making it unpassable as it had cars parked on either side. The repair technician ordered us to try another route . As circumstances were beyond my control I had to drop off a newborn baby and mother and collect children from the school I couldn't wait for over 1 hour so I was left with no choice but to reverse out."

below is the NOR they didn't send otherwise I would've reposted here and used your help to appeal at PATAS, I got the NOR on 4-4-2012 via email, here's what it said




Dear Mr

NOTICE OF REJECTION

London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) Number:
Date and Time of Contravention: 05/12/2011 at 14:49
Location: Gower Road
VRM:

Thank you for your representations received on 28th December 2011 against the above penalty charge
notice (PCN). Your comments and the evidence have been reviewed in accordance with Schedule 1 of the
London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003.

Our findings are:

The vehicle bearing the above registration number was observed by Camera Operator 1080 in Gower
Road at 14:49, via camera number 72. The vehicle was seen failing to drive in the direction shown by the
arrow on a blue sign (proceeding in wrong direction).

You have stated that Thames Water was carrying out work on Gower Road. I would like to inform you the
works would have not effect your route. Therefore, you would be able to drive down Gower Road.

Please note that we have documentary evidence to confirm that your vehicle was seen breaking the above
restriction. The CCTV footage clearly shows your vehicle failing to drive in the direction shown by the
arrow on a blue sign. Therefore the PCN is correctly issued.

Our records confirm that signs are in place and are clearly visible at the location which conforms to the
Traffic Signs Regulation and General Direction Act 2002. It remains the motorists responsibility to make
sure that they check and comply with the restrictions at all times, Road Traffic Signs have to be adhered to
at all times.

As a driver you should be aware of all road signs and are responsible for ensuring the regulations are
strictly adhered to at all times.

In conclusion, having taken all aspects of this matter including mitigation into consideration, reason for
cancellation has not been found.




I've got the charge notice and I'm waiting for the Order For Court in which I'm going to state I didn't receive the NOR. Any other advice on this issue will be highly appreciated thanks.
hcandersen
Can't follow the chronology of your story now.

Pl post:
Date of your reps (date of posting/email);
Date of their NOR i.e. the date on the notice. (you received a copy of the NOR on 4 April by email, but that doesn't count as a NOR because it must be served in writing and I suspect does not include an appeals registration form).

You've not told us the circumstances in which you received the copy NOR. You referred to the council agreeing to revert the penalty charge to £130 which can only mean that the CC has been cancelled. But I'm not certain who's supposed to take the next step:
1. you're waiting for them to serve another CC so that you can ignore it and for them to follow this with an OfR which you will then submit in order to get the new CC cancelled?
2. you to ask the council to send you an appeals registration form which you will then complete with a covering letter as this will be outside the 28 days allowed in which to register an appeal following receipt of a NOR?
3. ???

This could run and run.

What's the missing info and what's your game plan?

HCA

Enceladus
What date was on the Charge Certificate?
Does the address on the original PCN = Charge Certificate = Your current address?

Is there any discrepancy, however minor, between your name & address as stated on the original PCN and the name & address of the registered keeper of the car as detailed on the V5C.
Neil B
Can I point something out -- along the lines of what HCA is asking.

As your reps went in inside the 14 days and they've confirmed that, the NoR would normally have re-offered the discount. We haven't seen all of it (well, we haven't seen it at all - but I mean the text).

So -- going back to £130 stage is pointless IF they did re-offer the discount.

If that's the case I'd just ignore them and wait for the ultimate OfR.

----

Then again, I suppose we need answers to the questions already posed before deciding, so

Verbally saying they have returned it to £130 means what exactly? Did they say they would send a new PCN?

With the copy NoR, did they send patas forms, as has been asked?

----

For later, on the NoR, HTF do they know the works did not affect your route - and what does that mean exactly?
Enceladus
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 21 Apr 2012 - 16:18) *
You've not told us the circumstances in which you received the copy NOR. You referred to the council agreeing to revert the penalty charge to £130 which can only mean that the CC has been cancelled. But I'm not certain who's supposed to take the next step:
1. you're waiting for them to serve another CC so that you can ignore it and for them to follow this with an OfR which you will then submit in order to get the new CC cancelled?
2. you to ask the council to send you an appeals registration form which you will then complete with a covering letter as this will be outside the 28 days allowed in which to register an appeal following receipt of a NOR?
3. ???

Don't see that "2." was ever an option. The NOR was allegedly posted in Feb, went missing somewhere and his appeal window expired before he knew of it's existence. Why should the OP take a punt on whether or not PATAS will allow a late appeal? The fact is that he submitted reps, as was required of him, the Council admit such, subsequently no NOR was served on him. The OP is not to blame.

There are several aspects of this case that I find puzzling.
1: Why was the CCTV operator keeping tabs on this junction in the first place? Surely we are looking at exceptional rather than routine circumstances?
2: The OP provided the Thames Water (the statutory undertaker) works reference confirming that their contractor was repairing a sewer or whatever, yet Newham have not cancelled. I would have expected them to. Maybe they have sunk to new lows. However this suggests to me that matter has remained within Mouchel and the Council proper are unaware.
3: NORs, even copy NORs, are always sent by post.
4: The emailed NOR makes no reference to re-offering the discount option.

If you can't persuade Newham to cancel then really your only option is to let the Adjudicator decide. And if you cannot submit an appeal because you have no forms and are out of time then you have no other viable route but to wait for an Order for Recovery and submit the Statutory Declaration.

However I am wondering if you should make an explicit request now for the case history file? Or just wait. Or maybe you should write and ask them to reconsider?

Enceladus
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 21 Apr 2012 - 16:18) *
You've not told us the circumstances in which you received the copy NOR. You referred to the council agreeing to revert the penalty charge to £130 which can only mean that the CC has been cancelled. But I'm not certain who's supposed to take the next step:
1. you're waiting for them to serve another CC so that you can ignore it and for them to follow this with an OfR which you will then submit in order to get the new CC cancelled?
2. you to ask the council to send you an appeals registration form which you will then complete with a covering letter as this will be outside the 28 days allowed in which to register an appeal following receipt of a NOR?
3. ???

Don't see that "2." was ever an option. The NOR was allegedly posted in Feb, went missing somewhere and his appeal window expired before he knew of it's existence. Why should the OP take a punt on whether or not PATAS will allow a late appeal? The fact is that he submitted reps, as was required of him, the Council admit such, subsequently no NOR was served on him. The OP is not to blame.

There are several aspects of this case that I find puzzling.
1: Why was the CCTV operator keeping tabs on this junction in the first place? Surely we are looking at exceptional rather than routine circumstances?
2: The OP provided the Thames Water (the statutory undertaker) works reference confirming that their contractor was repairing a sewer or whatever, yet Newham have not cancelled. I would have expected them to. Maybe they have sunk to new lows. However this suggests to me that matter has remained within Mouchel and the Council proper are unaware.
3: NORs, even copy NORs, are always sent by post.
4: The emailed NOR makes no reference to re-offering the discount option.

If you can't persuade Newham to cancel then really your only option is to let the Adjudicator decide. And if you cannot submit an appeal because you have no forms and are out of time then you have no other viable route but to wait for an Order for Recovery and submit the Statutory Declaration.

However I am wondering if you should make an explicit request now for the case history file? Or just wait. Or maybe you should write and ask them to reconsider?

hcandersen
Providing the NOR exists and was sent within the statutory period then the OP cannot rely on the 56-day rule as a defence against the alleged contravention.

The only issue procedurally is how does the OP get to the adjudicator and it would be bizarre to go through the charade of my option 1. However, if the council have cancelled the CC as the OP states based on his telephone call, then there won't be an OfR and we could have a Mexican stand-off. Someone's got to do something.

I suggest the OP focuses on the procedure rather than the merits of the case at this stage because de facto and de jure the council have considered his reps and there's nothing more for them to do in terms of determining his case.


HCA
axminster
Hi

I replied to the PCN by post on 21-12-2011, they received it on 28-12-2011
I waited for their reply. No NOR or cancellation came.
I then got a Charge Cert. dated 23-03-2012 asking for £195
I called parking at Newham around end of march 2012 to say I didn't get their response, the NOR dated 17-02-2012.
They said well all we can do is move the case back a stage, they offered me option to pay £130 and case closed or await OFR and fill in didn't receive NOR on OFR. they said I had to decided there and then on the phone.
I said I need more time and then didn't reply
I then had an email conv. 4-4-2012 with Head of Parking, Newham about circumstances, mentioning Thames water etc
He said he was satisfied that contravention occurred and that I had to pay £195 or wait OFR. I pointed out that I was using Gower Road to get to Chaucer Road via one-way system, point missed out in Newham's reply in NOR, regardless he said contravention occurred. I believe their point is that I failed to follow one-way rule regardless of circumstances and was caught on camera.
In that email conversation he emailed me the NOR which I didn't' receive.
I last called them on 17-4-2012 to see if they've issued OFC but they said not yet. and didn't know when they will.
Original PCN has correct V5c details.
Enceladus
So since you did not pay at the time it seems the CC was not cancelled. So we still await an OFR which would be due around now.

Go here on the Newham site.
Select "Parking penalty charge notices (parking fines).
Put in your PCN reference and some silly payment amount such as 6.99.
Click the "Add to basket" button. You should get an error that says £195 is required.
£195 would mean the CC is still extant. £130 would mean they have cancelled the CC.
Please report back what you get.

It also seems that the email is not a copy of the original NOR. It appears to be some sort of review that you persuaded the Council to undertake. What was the name of the Council official?

If the CC is still live then I suggest that you wait for the OFR and submit the Statutory Declaration. Newham may have sent an NOR but the bottom line is that you did not get one. So you can legitimately tick the box. And since all is OK with the RK name & address etc there is no reason why it should not have reached you. Nonetheless it did not.

(Yours is a LLA & TFL 2003 PCN so the 56 day rule mentioned by HCA does not apply. In the absence of a period defined in the legislation The Chief Adjudicator has determined that three months is the working limit. However since an NOR was apparently sent the limit not apply.)

So we get the matter before PATAS and let the Adjudicator decide if it was reasonable for you to reverse out or not.

It sounds like the Council simply don't believe your story. Is it possible that there routine waterworks in the area as well as an emergency repair. You mentioned MSL somewhere. MSL have those tankers that suck out the contents of blocked sewers. They do so on behalf of Thames Water.
axminster
what ive posted in #24 is a copy of the text from NOR.
£195 is still outstanding acc to newhams website
Enceladus
QUOTE (axminster @ Sun, 22 Apr 2012 - 13:19) *
what ive posted in #24 is a copy of the text from NOR.
£195 is still outstanding acc to newhams website

Seems the Charge Certificate has not been cancelled then.
What you posted is a copy of the text of an email. And at a minimum it is incomplete. Since you don't have the NOR how do you know what it said.
A properly served NOR is sent in the post with PATAS forms.
What was the name of the Council official you corresponded with via email? (He is a public official so he can be named.)
axminster
Sorry I'm not being clear here

It was Lawrence Courtney Head of Parking, he emailed me a pdf version of the NOR.

what I've posted in #24 above is the text from the NOR. I copied the text from it as I was unable to post the pdf here
Neil B
QUOTE (axminster @ Sun, 22 Apr 2012 - 15:07) *
Sorry I'm not being clear here

It was Lawrence Courtney Head of Parking, he emailed me a pdf version of the NOR.

I copied the text from it as I was unable to post the pdf here


As enceladus said. What he has sent you is not a NoR. It is incomplete.

Can you just confirm that is ALL the text.
All that is there is their (supposed) reasons. Was there text concerning payment, appeal, etc as a normal, lawful NoR is required to have?
axminster
attached is a pdf of the NOR
Neil B
Thought so.

As we progress, if there are further documents can you please post all of each; It just saves several posts of questions.

---
They are cheeeky b*ggers giving you the option of £130 or wait for the OfR.
The NoR re-offered the discount and now they deny it.

It's a no-brainer now to wait for the OfR.
axminster
Hi All
I think this is my last chance to get this PCN appealed successfully at PATAS.

As you may recall Newham issued me with a PCN regarding a reversal out of a one-way street back in December 2011.
I appealed as the road was blocked by a yellow MTS drainage van carrying out sewer repairs on behalf of Thames Water.






Newham rejected the appeal but I did not receive the NOR. I then got the NOR emailed to me by Lawrence Courtney as I tried to appeal to him. He also rejected my appeal.



In their NOR Newham said that the works would not have affected my route and that I would be able to drive down Gower Road. I have said that the MTS van was in the middle of the road carrying out repairs and this made the route unpassable. I was trying to get to Chaucer Road.

After the charge notice and order for recovery arrived. I then filed a statutory notice saying I did not receive the NOR. The order for recovery was revoked.

Newham have now sent me 2 letters on this PCN and have referred the matter to PATAS.

the second letter has various pieces of evidence and a DVD





Below is the CCTV Operator Log from the evidence pack



It appears that 40 mins earlier another vehicle was also issued with a 32d contravention on Gower Road.

Please can you advise how I can prepare a successful appeal for PATAS?
What will the PATAS Adjudicator consider as acceptable to allow the appeal?

Also do I need to get the forms from PATAS as Newham have not sent me any forms.
Thanks for all help and advice.
EDW
Freedom of Info request to council for all works on the day for that and neighbouring street.

Consider asking TW for their records, if they don't comply patas can demand they appear as a witness.

I think Patas send you and appeal form and info leaflet, give them a call/email and quote the pcn, they are nice on phone to me.

axminster
thanks edw

For new readers please read post # 39
at the bottom of page 2 for info on this case.
axminster
I've noticed the offence code on the paperwork to be 32d which acc. to this website is for a round one-way sign
proceeding in the wrong direction

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/Moving%20traffic.htm#32

The sign on display at the start of the road where I reversed is a square one-way sign,
should the contravention code not be 32w? 32w One way traffic
Can I use this at Patas?
EDW
where is the pic of the pcn?
EDW
QUOTE (axminster @ Mon, 30 Jul 2012 - 16:34) *
I've noticed the offence code on the paperwork to be 32d which acc. to this website is for a round one-way sign
proceeding in the wrong direction

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/Moving%20traffic.htm#32

The sign on display at the start of the road where I reversed is a square one-way sign,
should the contravention code not be 32w? 32w One way traffic
Can I use this at Patas?




I think you win, should be a 32w (the w stands for 'way') check with Hippo', he is sagacious. They cannot re-issue the pcn. So I guess that is that.
axminster
Hippocrates
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...20023113_en_054

You are correct re this sign. The wrong suffix has been used. May we see all pics which have been redacted and the whole of the PCN?

They have used this sign 606 :- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...20023113_en_031

Now compare the signs with the descriptions as found in the Act:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/3/enacted

Wrong sign+wrong suffix=no contravention I would say. Supposing they had got the right and left hand contraventions mixed up? I agree with clark_kent. Though the council argue the contravention description in general terms.
axminster


Its a square sign which is not clearly visible on the pcn photos. Location is Gower Road E7 on Google maps shows the square sign clearly.
Hippocrates
The NOR is flawed because they state they "will" serve a Charge Certificate rather than "may".

Schedule 1,(3)(a) from:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

Cases:- 2110072817, 2100649871 & 2110415753

2120021652, from original decision:-


Paragraph 3 of the Schedule 1 to the 2003 Act provides:
Where any representations are made under paragraph 1 above but the enforcing authority do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (7) of the said paragraph 1 (in this Schedule referred to as "the notice of rejection") must-
(a) state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 5 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection-
(i) the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii) the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against the penalty charge; and
(b) describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made,
and may contain such other information as the enforcing authority consider appropriate.

The second page of the Notice of Rejection may comply with these requirements but clearly the first page does not.

The Appellant's submissions to the Enforcement Authority included the fact that he believed that the allegation was or should be that of contravening a bus lane restriction.

In an email to the Appellant yesterday, it appears that an officer of the Enforcement Authority has accepted that this was 'an administrative error which the council believes does not invalidate the PCN.'

It is not simply a question of quoting the wrong act. The Appellant was clearly informed by the Authority that an Enforcement Notice would be issued if the Penalty Charge Notice was not paid. In fact, if no appeal was lodged, a Charge Certificate would have been issued, increasing the penalty charge by 50%. This is a fundamental error on the part of the Enforcement Authority.
EDW
Contravention code list
Policy area: Transport
Date of publication: 22 May 2012

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/London%20...cncodesv661.pdf

See bottom of page 1, code 32


see wording: 'code-specific suffixes apply, London only.


It should be 32w. Does that win at PaTAS? I think 'code-specific suffixes apply, London only' helps?
axminster
When presenting to PATAS can I provide two reasons for my defence i.e. incorrect offence code and blocked road?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.