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j1mster
Hello all,
I would appreciate some advice on this if possible please.

My wife went to an appointment at Cannock (Staffs) Hospital on Friday 9th December 2011. She could not park in the designated bays immediately outside the hospital, so parked in designated strips that run along the length of the road adjacent to the hospital. This is Brunswick Road, Cannock, Staffordshire WS11. The images on Google street view are slightly out of date but the strips either side of the Hospital entrance have not changed, The bus stop just on Brunswick Road from the Beecroft Road entrance is no longer there I believe. She parked in the Disabled strip between what was "then" the bus stop and the Hospital entrance. She is registered disabled, has a valid badge, and struggled to walk that distance after a major operation on her leg which she was attending a follow-up appointment for. Needless to say she was staggered at receiving the PCN to the point that she is refusing to drive again in case of any more tickets. Can anybody shed light on why she may have gotten the PCN?

I apologise for the quality of the parking images but they were taken on her phone at the time (approx. 4.30pm)

The Ticket:


The Back:


Valid Badge:


The parking strip with her car (Black Astra):


Clearly labelled:


She parked behind this car which was there before she parked, and was still there when she left. No ticket on this one:


Any help would be most appreciated.
Jim
Neil B
Are those pics at the time? Where is the clock with the BB?

You probably have a good chance of a discretionary cancellation and I'm seeing crucial info missing from that PCN.

QUOTE (j1mster @ Tue, 13 Dec 2011 - 22:40) *
so parked in designated strips that run along the length of the road


Designated strip? It's a yellow line and the 01 on the PCN reflects that. I'm assuming it's gonna be the missing clock - yes/no?
j1mster
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 14 Dec 2011 - 02:46) *
Are those pics at the time? Where is the clock with the BB?

You probably have a good chance of a discretionary cancellation and I'm seeing crucial info missing from that PCN.

QUOTE (j1mster @ Tue, 13 Dec 2011 - 22:40) *
so parked in designated strips that run along the length of the road


Designated strip? It's a yellow line and the 01 on the PCN reflects that. I'm assuming it's gonna be the missing clock - yes/no?



Hi Neil, thanks for your reply.

Yes, there is a single yellow line along the road. These are inside the designated Disabled parking "strip" for want of a better word as there are no individual "spaces". As far as I am aware, there is no need to display a timer when parked within a designated bay/"strip" unless otherwise directed. There are no roadside instructions.

The pictures are taken when returning to the car.

thanks,
Jim
Neil B
The pics don't give the broad angle needed to understand.

By ''strip'' do you mean a parking bay - i.e. marked by white lines?

If so then there will be set times applicable for the yellow running through. There should be signage -- what is there? I wouldn't be surprised if confusing or flawed.

---

Ok found it - and boy is it wierd!

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=brunswick+...=12,310.99,,0,0

3 lay-by disabled bays all with DY - (I thought only single yellow in your pic at first).

I doubt very much they can do that.

At a guess I think they are trying to reserve the DYs for disabled use -- as you can with a BB - but you need to display clock for that.

Something is wrong here. You need to get the Traffic Regulation Order for the location.
Enceladus
This is just ludicrous.
As disabled bays they are unenforceable as they have no signs.
If the Council intended the bays to be disabled only they should have put up signs.
If the Council intended a time limit, then the signs should provide details.
Had there been signs and no time limit only a Blue Badge was required.

As it is we have DYLs and some graffiti in white paint.
The DYLs are subject to a three hour limit providing a Blue Badge and clock were displayed.

By laying out the bays as they have it is just plain misleading. It implies that they are standard disabled bays, not subject to a time limit, when in fact they are nothing at all. It is entrapment.

I suggest you write to them within the discount period.
Demand to know why you were given a PCN when you were parked in a disabled bay, at a hospital, with a valid blue badge on display. Ask for copies of the CEO's notes and copies of any and all photos the CEO took.
Make it clear that the Blue Badge holder was in the car or driving the car.
Demand a copy of the Traffic Order and any applicable amendments that you are alleged to have contravened.

Get your letter delivered to the Council on or before Thurs 22nd Dec. Let''s see what comes back!
hcandersen
Contravention did not occur, the road is unlawfully marked. The markings imply that at some times it is permissible to wait at that location by way of parking (but not loading), subject to displaying the necessary BB, while the DYL imply that waiting of any type, other than for the purposes of loading and boarding/alighting, is prohibited.

This cannot be.

Just get your challenge in and if they do not cancel require them to provide you with the articles from the traffic order which they claim establish the restrictions.


HCA
Neil B
btw.

they very (un)helpfully put their TROs in the TPT library - but without the ''plans'' that list or map the streets and the restrictions therein that they refer to???

-
Enceladus
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Thu, 15 Dec 2011 - 11:08) *
Demand a copy of the Traffic Order and any applicable amendments that you are alleged to have contravened.

Demand a copy of the Traffic Order, including all applicable amendments and all applicable maps or schematics, that you are alleged to have contravened.
j1mster
Many thanks to you all for your contributions so far, and apologies for not replying until now.
I have been back to the "scene of the crime" tongue.gif and have taken the following pictures during daylight to try and help outline the situation. To clarify, there are double yellow lines with no vertical bars on the kerbside. There is a dotted/dashed disabled bay "insinuation" for want of a better word that identifies what one would think is a valid disabled parking area. There are NO roadside signs giving information other than one about drinking in public. This bay runs for (at a guess) 600 meters either side of the hospital entrance.



The only sign by the road:


no signs....


How the "bay/strip" starts:


Again:


Markings in the road:


Again:


And again:


The end of the "bay/strip"


It continues in the same vain on the other side of the entrance too!

Any more advice? Is it better to appeal by post or is email a reasonable option?


Thanks again,
Jim
hcandersen
Read the back of the PCN. Given that you can email your challenge and that the 14-day period (which keeps the discount in play) expires on 23rd Dec, you could do either. Your choice, but frankly it's not worth swithering about.

HCA
j1mster
Just sent off the appeal via email.

Be interesting to see what their interpretation of it all is tongue.gif
Neil B
QUOTE (j1mster @ Tue, 20 Dec 2011 - 13:50) *
Just sent off the appeal via email.

Be interesting to see what their interpretation of it all is tongue.gif


An 'interpretation' is all they will be able to offer laugh.gif Something quite imaginative I guess!
j1mster
Very swift reply biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif



Came in post within 2 days of email.

Many thanks to those who contributed, I was pretty sure they didn't have a leg to stand on but the help, advice and support is invaluable.

Cheers thumbsup.gif
Neil B
Well done.

They are still talking nonsense. The TRO would be interesting to see; The combination of markings and lack of signage cannot be lawful.
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