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Vertuas
Hi All,

I come seeking advice.

Last September I reviceved word from the director of the company that I workfor that I had picked up a speeding fine from a road side camera whilst driving the company van, and my information had been filled in on the NIP. This is fine, I was driving at the time.

About 6 weeks later, I recieved from North Yorkshire Police a REMINDER of a NIP that i never recieved. For an alleged offence at a place that i have never heard of (Rainton, on the A1) for doing 62mph in a road works signed at 50mph that I dont even remember driving through. Why would i be doing 62 in a company vehicle in a 50 zone??....the internal crap aint even worth it!!!

So i filled in the form and sent it back, for the simple reason that the legal system is stacked against me and I have no means of defending myself.


A couple of weeks later, I recieved a REMINDER for the offer of fixed penelty / speed awareness course. North yorkshire police did not send the original, just the reminder. I completed the offer of speed awarness course and posted back the form.


Week before last I recieved the form to apply for the speed awareness course. This arrived more than 7 days after the date on the letter, with a reply deadeline of "within 7 days" of the date of the letter. I called them and they added a note on my file (so they said) and told me to post back the form immediatly, which i did.



On Friday I recieved a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, even though i have already applied for the speed aweness course. I called the Central Ticket Office to be told that they have not recieved my application, even though its more than a week since it was posted out.


My opinion of North Yorkshire Police at the moment is not the highest and I am appalled at the completely disorganised manner in which this matter has been managed.


So my question is, do i now have to take the points and fine and five years increased car insurance, for an offense that i have no idea that i had even committed, in a place that i have never heard of, and because of incompetence displayed by the police service?


Thanks


Dave
Glacier2
You must have a crap postman.
andy_foster
Are you looking for meaningful advice, or do you just want to have a rant?
Vertuas
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 28 Nov 2011 - 13:41) *
Are you looking for meaningful advice, or do you just want to have a rant?



A little bit of both to be honest.

As far I an conerened, I have done everything asked of me. I accepted that I was the driver of the vehicle at the time, even though I doubt that the offense took place. The only thing that i could do is take the rap fo it.


As far as having the offer of speed awareness course revoked on the basis that they (north yorks police) claim that the never recieved the form that i personally completed and posted, what can i do about this? I am now left in a situation where i have to take the points, by an organiseation that is here to uphold the law, not to abuse it.

Is there anythink that i can do to have the speed awareness course re-instated?

QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 28 Nov 2011 - 13:39) *
You must have a crap postman.



Yep the post is a bit crap everywhere.



We used to have an Empire.......now we don't have a postal service that works smile.gif
Glacier2
A strongly worded letter by special delivery.
martinbiz
So........you are basically saying that everything you have posted out has not got there and everything you should have received did not arrive or was late? Jeez... Don't bother buying a lottery ticket!

Did you keep the envelope for the sac offer which took 7 days, if so what is the postmark date? If it shows it really did take that long you need to contact the ticket office now by letter enclosing a copy of the post mark and a letter explaining the facts and send it RECORDED.

If you have O points now 3 is not going to have a significant effect, if any on your insurance.
Glacier2
Recorded delivery is useless for large organisations such as the police.

Special delivery is the only option.
the ninja
hopefully without coming across too cheeky - you've came onto a public forum to ask for advice, yet you cannot be bothered to check Google Maps or StreetView to see if you were or have been on the road to see if the speeding fine is actually correct (bearign in mind the titel of your thread)?
captain swoop
YOur speeding ticket is for the Average Speed Cameras on the stretch of the A1 that is being widened to 3 lanes each way. They have been there for about a year now.
cieranc
I disagree. I think you've been got with a gun from the new bridge over what was Rainton crossroads. It's a regular haunt for NYP.

Half them average speed camera's are switched off and the half that work are set higher than 62mph.

As advised by 2 NY traffic officers (seperately), and a good friend who works for Serco, he set them up.

Plus our lads, myself included have been coming through them roadworks on a night at 60-65 (but never more than 65 wink.gif) for the last 2 years.

Does anyone know of any cases relating to these average speed cameras here on PePiPoo ?
EDIT: This http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/...php/t44738.html appears to be in the same place (Rainton Bridge) and a fixed camera.
3phase278
QUOTE (Vertuas @ Mon, 28 Nov 2011 - 12:54) *
As far I an conerened, I have done everything asked of me. I accepted that I was the driver of the vehicle at the time, even though I doubt that the offense took place.


If you are convinced you never committed the offence then you have the option to plead not guilty. They will then present evidence in court that should explain why they wish to charge you with the offence. You will then have the option to dispute it.

"Doubting" you did it is not the same as being convinced you didn't, so unless you are very sure you didn't and fancy court, I'd draft a letter asking if the possibility of a SAC is still available, explaining in concise detail that it wasn't your fault your response reached them so late.

and keep copies of everything and get proof of posting or send special delivery.



Vertuas
Hello,



I posted a while ago reguarding the completely disorganised way in which North Yorkshire Police have dealt with handing out 3 point to me.


I received the original NIP last september, and filled in all of the forms, and posted them back.


I received an invitation to attend a speed awareness course, completed the form and sent it back.


I then recieved a letter offering a fixed penalty of 3 points and fine.



At this point I wrote the central ticket office to ask why, they had sent this paper work out, when i had elected to take part in a speed awareness couse. To which they cliamed that they never recieved the paper wark.

North Yorkshire Police have now passed the case on the CPS.

I have never denied that the offense was not committed, and I have toed the line all along. Due to disorganisation and the shoddy way that North Police have treated me, this is issue is now wasting the court's time as well as my own.

Goign through the "evidence" that the CPS has sent to me. I see the following :

1. The application to attend speed awareness course that North Yorkshie Police said that they never recieved.
2. A Police witnes satement, signed at the bottom by W P Broadhead, however the "Signature Witnessed by" has not been signed
3. W P Broadhead claims in his statement that NYP were not contacted by me after the offer of fixed penelty was issue, this is untrue as i wrote to ask why and they replied
4. Copies of letters sent to NYP are not included in the "evidence"


Is there a case here to get this overturned on the information above?


I am still happy to attend a speed awerness course however I don't see how it is fair that people are treated this by an organisation that is in place to uphold the law, not to abuse it!


Many Thanks



David
Jlc
You didn't accept the CoFP? If not, a court visit is inevitable - regardless of the course offer.
jobo
so they did receve your form,? there isnt a date stamp on it, is there ?
Mattd
On point 2 - statements do not need to be witnessed unless the individual is under 18 or would require an appropriate adult present during the taking of the statement. This section is for that appropriate adult to sign. It would be highly unusual for a police employee to require their statements to be witnessed.
BaggieBoy
Original thread here.
Vertuas
Ok i have just been reading the statement. It say that they recieved the SAC application outside of the allowed time.

To recap :

The original offer of speed awareness was never recieved, even though NYP claim to have have evidence of it being posted.


The reminder was delivered 2 days after the 7 day cut off, I called NYP, they said that they had put a note on it and that i was to send it right away, which i did.

I also notice that in the "evidence" the first letter include, that was sent to me, is the copy of the NIP final remind. I never recieved the actual NIP.

However, in here is a blank, uncompleted copy of the first offer of SAC that I never recieved, and the remind that I completed and sent back.

Since there is no copy of the NIP in here, am i correct in thinking that they did not actually send one? Why would they have a copy of the original SAC letter but not a copy of the original NIP??



So i guess from that point of view of the witness statement and the dated letters, i have no choice in the matter.

It does not however, excude NYC for the disorganised way that this was handled, resulting in my prosectution.

I despairs that it apear that NYP can manipulate the evidence in anyway that they see fit, and I have no way to defend myself against it.

QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 - 23:17) *
Original thread here.



Thanks for finding that smile.gif
Vertuas
Just for the record :

Upon receiving the "evidence", kindly sent to me by the CPS, it seems that it was the average speed cameras (Speed Check SVDD system)

They claim that i was travelling at 62mph in a 50mph zone. I have no information to contest with, so have no choice but to accept this as correct, even though I do not agree with it.
3phase278
not sure what you are saying?

sounds like you now have a summons with an evidence pack

you are writing in present tense as if this is still ongoing? Did you not accept the COFP?

going to court and loosing will cost you more than the COFP but should be same points at that speed - if you do not agree with the speed then you need to give people on here a clue as to why, so relevent advice can be offered - you saying you do not agree with it isn't much to go on.

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