Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Alleged Speeding
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Rhubbs
I was going down a dual carriageway, around 10.15pm, went straight on at a roundabout, an unmarked police car went in front of me round the roundabout and joined the dual carriageway.

I didn't know it was an unmarked police car and I followed it for 0.2 of a mile, it wasnt doing nearly 70mph so I overtook it, as I was overtaking it then speeded up.

There was 1 car in the slow lane, further on from the unmarked police car. I speeded up alittle to get clear of the unmarked police car, i intended to pull in after i had over taken the car that was further along the road.

The unmarked police car pulled in behind me, tailgating me. I speeded up alittle more, still intending to pull in after i had over taken the next and only other car on the road.

As soon as I cleared the other car the unmarked police cars blue lights came on, the unmarked car was behind me about 0.3/0.4 mile), I pulled in travelled a few hundred yards down the road so the car we had just over taken had chance to react and I came to a stop.

I was invited into the back of the police car by a chap in plain cloths, at no point did he offer me a warrant card or identify himself verbally as a police officer.

He asked me for my driving license, name, DOB and ran a check on my car. I gave him my driving license, my name and DOB, the check came back as ok giving the police officer my address.

He said I was doing 115mph, which I strongly denied, saying there was no way I even over 100mph and asked to see the video of my speed.

He said he didn't have a video, so I asked how he calibrated my speed, he said he hadn't.

He then asked me if I was ok with the fact he had seen my driving license and that he had ran the check on my car, which I replied, 'I supposed so'

He then said I was doing over 100mph, which again I denied, he then said he was going to report me for driving over 70mph, read me my rights and asked me if i understood them, I just said, 'I suppose'

He then let me out the unmarked car and I went on my merry way.

I got home and rang a friend, who suggested it might not have been a real police officer at all as I had been getting threats from a group of people (friends of an ex, which were reported to the police) I explained how the conversation with the officer had gone, I don't have points on my license nor do i have a criminal record so dealing with the police is something I don't know much about, it was then suggest police procedure wasn't followed and it might not be a real officer.

I decided to go to the police station and ask about it, no one could speak to me there, to busy on a saturday night (they close the front desk due to funding cuts at 11pm), so I came home and rang my friend back, again he mentioned it might not have been a real officer and if it was something to do with these friends of my ex, they could easily know my address.

So it got to about 1.30am sunday morning and I decided to ring my county police station and speak to someone there, told them it was an unmarked car, no uniform and no warrant card, wouldn't show me any evidence i was speeding which had made me worry it wasn't a real officer, the lady went to check. she came back saying yes the officers name is ^*%^&$% he's 1 of ours, don't worry, I thanked her and hung up.

Now my friend is saying the officer had to be in uniform or had to have shown me his warrent card and that if i get a ticket or a summons it'll be unlawful.

I was coming back from visiting my children who live 25 miles away, I'm so worried if I get taken to court for doing 115mph, I'll lose my license and not be able to see my children. I'm also just opening a new business so really need to drive or I get no income.

I've tried to look on the internet, but can't find much information, I've seen this site so thought I would post here, please someone give me alittle advice, I know it's not legal advice, just alittle heads up, I'm so worried I can't sleep.

Thanks in advance.

*** Please Note:

I feel, If I was speeding, it was entrapment because the police car started to behave in a way I found dangerous, I was looking more at him than my speedo, I felt I needed to get out of his way and slamming on my brakes in the fast lane of a dual carriageway wasn't something I thought about doing.

I'm not sure about this uniform or warrant card issues. But if its true, then is any ticket or summons I recieve lawful?

He refused to show me any evidence of my speed, and couldn't tell me about any kind of calibration. Is this normal?

I'm worried it's my word against a police officer's, he can make up what speed he likes, the fact it took me nearly half a mile to overtake the car that was in front of him suggests to me my speed wasn't excessive, he was a young lad, on his own, probably didn't like the fact I've a fast car. He even suggested I could have gone alot faster, but clearly backed off because he started to get to get even closer to me.

I wasn't informed when I would be written to, or if i would be taken to court over it, he certainly didn't tell me what speed I would be getting reported for, just said 'I'll report you for doing over 70mph'

I don't know if Im going to lose my license, get a fine, points or what. I can't sleep now, I'm worried I'll not be able to visit my kids, not be able to start this business which I have invested heavily into, buying a new van etc.

Again thanks for any help.
mrh3369
There is no such thing as entrapment in uk law, he didn't force you to speed as you were in control of your car and it's speed.
AFCNEAL
Your 'friend' is sadly misinformed and should be politely ignored.

This comes down to your word vs the police and you can figure out who a court will believe. From your description you seem to infer you were exceeding the speed limit even if not 100 mph+?
sgtdixie
The Police officer has told you the speed he checked you at and the offence he is reporting you for. The summons will say you exceeded the 70 mph speed limit. The statement of facts and witness statement will detail the speed alleged and describe the incident.

The officer does not need to show you his warrant card unless you ask him for it or be in uniform. (incidentally what was he wearing, jeans and a T Shirt perhaps?) An unmarked performance car with discreet blues & twos will almost certainly be a Traffic car. This is supported by the fact that Traffic officers drive at what is known as patrol speed. This is either the normal legal flow of Traffic or 5 to 10 mph below NSL on dual carriageways or motorways as you state in your account. A Traffic car will either have a calibrated speedometer or a time and distance speed device. If a Traffic officer they will almost certainly check the calibration of the device or speedometer at the beginning and end of the shift. If not checked before the offence it will be done post incident. This will, with his opinion of you exceeding the speed limit, be sufficient evidence for a conviction unless you can provide a defence stronger than you disagreeing.

If you accept you were exceeding the speed limit one option is to plead guilty and ask for a Newton Hearing where you will try and pursuade the court your speed whilst over the limit was lower than that alleged. This can significantly reduce the penalty, in your case from the chance of a straight ban to points and a fine.

Given the speed alleged is so far above the speed limit it is unlikely you will succeed in pursuading a court the officer was mistaken (if you say he is lying or trying to 'force' you to go faster the bench will take a dim view and you will almost certainly lose as it will put their backs up) that you were speeding. So a Newton Hearing is your best bet. You will however need more than just a denial of the speed.
Rhubbs
This officer is out and out lying.

The time he was behind me for the distance we covered would suggest if I was speeding it was no more than a few mph over the limit.

Duress of circumstances - a loony young man in an unmarked car, in plain clothes, is chasing you, driving erratically around you, speeding up next to you, braking swerving behind you. If you had been reporting death threats to the police for the past 3 years, wouldn't you put your foot down to get out of this idiots way, specially if you can't pull over to the near side or brake for fear of having him hitting you from behind ?

The officer also said he could see I lifted off when I was in the back of his car, he used this as his excuse for getting very close. Wouldn't this suggest my intentions were to slow down so I could pull in front of the car I'd just over taken. Love the way he sees I'm slowing so then turns his lights on, what a hero.

Wouldn't any of this be taking into account if I go to court ?

QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Sun, 27 Nov 2011 - 09:23) *
The Police officer has told you the speed he checked you at and the offence he is reporting you for. The summons will say you exceeded the 70 mph speed limit. The statement of facts and witness statement will detail the speed alleged and describe the incident.


So If I'm being reported for going over 70mph, will I get a summons or a fixed penalty? If it's a fixed penalty, is that points and a fine ?
If it's a summons, what would you suggest I do?

Thanks for your replies guys
jobo
ive had similar done to me, by what a took to be two lads in a fast car, but turned out to be two of GMPs finest

if its a traffic car, there will be video, if there is video, then your point is made, if its a defence or not is up to the courts accepting that you believed your safety was threatened
sgtdixie
QUOTE (Rhubbs @ Sun, 27 Nov 2011 - 16:08) *
This officer is out and out lying.

The time he was behind me for the distance we covered would suggest if I was speeding it was no more than a few mph over the limit.

Duress of circumstances -
QUOTE
a loony young man in an unmarked car, in plain clothes, is chasing you, driving erratically around you, speeding up next to you, braking swerving behind you. If you had been reporting death threats to the police for the past 3 years, wouldn't you put your foot down to get out of this idiots way, specially if you can't pull over to the near side or brake for fear of having him hitting you from behind ?


The officer also said he could see I lifted off when I was in the back of his car, he used this as his excuse for getting very close. Wouldn't this suggest my intentions were to slow down so I could pull in front of the car I'd just over taken. Love the way he sees I'm slowing so then turns his lights on, what a hero.

Wouldn't any of this be taking into account if I go to court ?

QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Sun, 27 Nov 2011 - 09:23) *
The Police officer has told you the speed he checked you at and the offence he is reporting you for. The summons will say you exceeded the 70 mph speed limit. The statement of facts and witness statement will detail the speed alleged and describe the incident.


So If I'm being reported for going over 70mph, will I get a summons or a fixed penalty? If it's a fixed penalty, is that points and a fine ?
If it's a summons, what would you suggest I do?

Thanks for your replies guys


It might have helped if you had come out with this story in your first post!

I would be interested to know why a Police officer would invent a speed of over 100 mph if you were only doing a few mph over the speed limit. If you went to court and proved it was a lie he would go to prison. What benefit is he getting from this when he could have got a simple speeding job alleging just over 70 mph?

Unless you can substantiate your story I feel magistrates will be less than impressed by your story.

You will not get a COFP at 100+ it will be a summons.
QUOTE
if its a traffic car, there will be video,


Not all Traffic cars have video, mores the pity.

I will offer a bit of advice which you are free to ignore with me being and ex cop, lose the attitude and calmly look at the facts and how you can challenge them. Ranting about the Police officer may make you feel better but if you try that at court you will be lucky to come away with your licence.

Rhubbs
Fact is a copper didn't like me, pulled me, couldn't find anything wrong with my car so lied about me speeding. Kind of hard to challenge that!
mrh3369
Why would he? What has he got to gain? He could lose his career,pension and even his liberty if he were caught lying.
blocco
QUOTE (Rhubbs @ Sun, 27 Nov 2011 - 22:38) *
Fact is a copper didn't like me, pulled me, couldn't find anything wrong with my car so lied about me speeding. Kind of hard to challenge that!

Oh I don't know...I'm finding it easy.
You use precise distances in your story that most drivers would have little recall of; contrast this with your very imprecise recall of your own speed. Your story doesn't add up and that is in your very first description of events; couple this with alleging the police officer is a liar and you leave yourself in a hopeless position.
I believe the magistrates are bound to find against you and will be very, very annoyed if you allege, without evidence, that the officer was being dishonest. If you don't have a record of your own speed at the time you really need to give the dishonest officer claim a wide berth.
If the officer was unaccompanied he would need to confirm his opinion of your speed with some form of measuring device; as a minimum, his speedometer will suffice but he may have some other form of measuring device; you will find out more when you receive the evidence against you.
Mayhem007
You talk of Duress of circumstances, however you stated that you increased your speed due to a slower vehicle in the inside lane and thus give that vehicle time to slow down. And subsequently allow the following vehicle pass. This appears to be something you carried out in a controlled manner rather than attributed to duress of circumstances.

I would drop the idea that the police officer is lying and focus on a more real possibility that he got got his assumptions or calculations wrong. If you focus on the possibility that he has made a genuine misjudgement, it may put you in the correct frame of mind for putting forward a good defence with a much improved possibility of winning a newtons hearing.

I would suggest you document the incident in great detail, whilst it is fresh in your mind. Document the precise details from when you first so the unmarked car to the time after the verbal NIP. One aspect in your case which is critical to your defence of the alleged speed was your denial of the alleged speed. Hopefully your denial of the speed was after being cautioned, which means the officer will have to metion this in court. If his witness report states that you made no response, and which you did, then I would believe the officer's integrity is in dispute.

You need to get your calculator out and start working on the mechanics of your case. Other than that there is very little to be done until you get the summons, alleged offence and officer's statement. Once you get all that you can then decide on a newtons hearing and then disclosure of evidence.

Just to reiterate loose the thought of the officer lying, he hasn't made an official statement yet.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.