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Suliman Din
Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help please.

I have received a conditional offer of fixed penalty for speeding 43 mph on a 30 mph road. I received this on 17-Oct. Date of offence 20-Aug.

Basically I have left it late as was to find out from a lawyer what steps are best to take and he suggested paying for fine and taking the points. (3 points and 60 quid fine)

Looking for my counterpart license today, which I was sure I had but cannot find it and I need to reply by 15-Nov before it gets passed onto the procurator Fiscal. I will need to request DVLA to send my new license through but will not be within the 28 day timescale.

Just wanted to know the chances of receiving a heavier fine and penalty for sending in my details late. And if any further advice or recommendations can be given will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Aretnap
If this went to court it's quite possible that you'd get a more severe penalty. These guidelines apply in England, not Scotland, but may give you a rough idea of what to expect.



I'd suggest that you contact the cicket office, explain that you're unable to find your counterpart and ask if they will give you more time to respond while you wait for the DVLA to send a new one. They may be willing to do this, given that you're not too close to the 6 month deadline by which they'd have to issue a summons.

Edit: I'd add that if id did go to court the English Sentencing Guidelines instruct magistrates that if the defendant was unable to accept a fixed penalty for reasons unconnected to the offence then he should only be punished at the level of the fixed penalty. Again these guidelines don't apply in Scotland, but if it did go that far there would be no harm in asking the court to apply the same logic.
Suliman Din
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2011
Date of the NIP: - 30 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 31 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Great Western Road Glasgow Near Keal Avenue
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I remember travelling down the road and remember getting flashed but on the other side of the road. I cannot remember clearly as I was fasting that day. I have accepted the NIP that it was me that was the driver. But as my post says I cannot find my counterpart license and have applied to DVLA but won't receive it in time so this will be passed to the procurator fiscal. Any help will be much appreciated. Sorry should have completed this wizard before posting but its my first time on this forum. Thanks.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:54:25 +0000
Logician
It is never a good idea to delay in deciding what to do about such matters, you would probably have got a replacment counterpart in time if you had acted at once. I would apply at once for a replacement licence and if this is from the police, go to a station and explain, if it is from a fixed penalty unit, write at once accepting the offer and enclosing a cheque for £60 and a letter explaining your counterpart is lost and you are waiting for a replacement. Probably in both cases they will decline the cheque but you will have a record that you attempted to pay the fixed penalty (if you get nothing written from the police ask for something) In England and Wales you would receive a court summons but could ask to be dealt with at the level of a fixed penalty, under magistrates courts guidelines. I do not know if anything similar applies in Scotland. If it does not, the fine might be more but the points stay the same.
Suliman Din
Thanks guys.

I spoke to the ticketing office who said that they cannot do anything in regards to delaying it but to apply to dvla for a new licence and by then it would probably have gone to court and up to them to decide whether penalty would remain the same or not. In regards to going to my local police station to explain things, I'm not sure. It's down to my own carelessness that I am in this position however in the beginning I would have definitely liked to appeal as I cannot recall the incident clearly. However there is no clear cut appeals process in place, especially since this incident is regards to a static camera, in between two sets of trees I may have some grounds of appeal I think!! I have attached the camera and even so I'm pretty sure I got flashed on the other side of the road but to be honest not certain as I cannot remember. But I guess it might be too late for all this now!

Any other info would be appreciated, some light at the end of the tunnel hopefully :0)

Aretnap
There isn't an "appeals" process as such; if you want to dispute the offence you can decline the fixed penalty and plead not guilty when it goes to court. However I'm not sure what grounds you would have for disputing the charge; there is no requirement for speed cameras to be visible so the fact that it's between two trees isn't of any obvious help, and it still looks fairly visible from the photos anyway.

As this is Scotland you could have gone down the unsigned route, but presumably you've already returned and signed the form naming yourself as driver, so that ship has now sailed.
Logician
That is a Gatso, and if you can get the photos from it, you can check the speed by using the road markings. Some forces send out the photos and some will send them if you ask to see them "to assist in identifying the driver" but you have no entitlement to see them unless you plead not guilty. I cannot see it flashing you on the other side of a dual carriageway.
Suliman Din
I'm not really sure what I should do now tho. I've sent away for my license so now I just need to wait for court to come back to me. Anyway I can stop it getting to court? I don't want to get 6 points coz when the offence was committed I was still within my 2 years probationary period which I will have to retest. Was gonna accept the conditional offer for 3 points and 60 quid fine but this counterpart dunno where its gone!!
jobo
i got my replacement within a couple of days onetime, for payment of a small fee ?
#
have you undertaken a '' forensic'' search ?

with your circumstances you have every chance of the court just applying the fixed penalty
glasgow_bhoy
You MIGHT be lucky and find the fiscal offer you a 3 points £60 one last time before court, but don't count on it.

That camera isn't hidden though bud :/ so even if it was a defence if they were hidden, it wouldn't work here. There's also a speed camera van sits further down the road a lot too, just before the 50 at the overpass- just watch that in future smile.gif
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