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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
sedgewedge
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2011
Date of the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A149, Hunstanton, towards King's Lynn
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I had just turned out of a side road directly opposite the police station where the speed camera van was situated. I was reported as doing 36mph in a 30 zone but clearly remember I was doing well under 30 as I had seen the camera infront of me before I turned onto the main road. I do not speed anyway and have no idea how I can prove I was not speeding! Im gutted and wouldnt even mind taking the points if I knew I had been speeding but I wasnt! Also a friend of mine was caught 30 mins later on same stretch of road, reportedly doing 36mph too, she is adament she also was not speeding!

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 12:46:53 +0000
jobo
write and ask for picies to help id the driver, not proof or evidence and see what if anything these show

if it turns out you were speeding your odds on to get a course instead of points, if youve not previously done one
sedgewedge
main things I need help with:
I have not returned NIP as yet, Can I ask for photo to confirm driver if Im sure I was snapped from the rear of the car? If I enclose a letter stating i want to appeal, will I lose my chance to accept a speed awareness course? should i ask for calibration certificate? Any advice much appreciated!
jobo
you can ask for picies, some places send them, some turn awkward, do not ask for anything else

but you need to follow instruction carefully, as in write and ask for picies, nothing else at this stage, or yes you may well mess up the course option

you have 28 days to reply naming the driver, so make your request, if nothing is sent, reply in time and wait for developments, which will be either a course or a COFP, 3 points and 60 quid

nb do not at any stage attach a letter saying anything at all about appealing
sedgewedge
OK
Thanks Jobo, will let you know how it goes!
odom
Also, if you are 100% sure you were not speeding, the scamera vans record everything to DVD which would prove your case. Remember though they can catch you over half a mile away, so just because you weren't speeding when you saw the van, doesn't mean they didn't catch you first.
sedgewedge
thanks odom, i had just turned out of a side road (from being parked 20m away from the van) so I cant have been speeding beforehand, its just strange as I was so careful having seen the van! presume getting hold of the DVD is a nightmare!!?
BaggieBoy
No chance on getting a DVD unless you take it to court and plead not guilty. Some forces do offer the option of viewing the footage however.
odom
If everything is as you say it was as Jobo has said I would ask for photos to "help identify the driver" (NOT evidence or proof). You may well find that when they're getting the photos they realise they've cocked up and drop the case. If the photos confirm it was where/when you think it was, then you have a bulletproof defence as the video will show you cannot have been speeding, so you can go to court and enjoy seeing their red faces when the video is shown (if they don't drop it before then).

You coming out of a side road is interesting in itself because it suggests the laser might have "slipped" down the side of your car, giving an erroneous reading (although scamera operators deny this could ever happen).

Whatever happens keep a copy of everything, firstly so you can claim back your costs if it goes to court, and secondly because your local newspaper will love a story like this.
sedgewedge
thanks guys, have sent the letter back requesting pics to identify the driver, as the photos will be from the rear, dont know exactly how Im going to use them as I know I was driving, but presume its the starting point to be able to see exactly where I was!
The Rookie
The photo's are to help YOU determine what happened, not ID the driver, but tell the scammers that and you wouldn't see them - capiche?

I doubt slip as described as no-one would target a car as it pulled out, clearly not speeding - although we have seen one case where the van was fully broadside on to he camera when 'pinged' so anything is possible!

Simon
sedgewedge
Got my photos back today, they had zapped me much further up the road literally as I was going from 30 into a 40. I dont think Im far off being level with the 40 sign!!! is the number in the bottom right hand side of the pic the distance from the mobile scamera? it says 0295.7m underneath -036MPH I will be getting my measuring tape out if thats the case! Will try and upload pictures this evening!
The Rookie
Yes that is the distance, also worth checking to make sure the 40 starts in the right place, councils often 'stretch' 30 limits by putting the signs outside where the limit can be legally applied. You need to get the TRO for the 40 limit and (if one exists, it may well not) for the 30 limit to see where the 40 really starts. Do both limits have a system of street lighting placed no more than 183m (200 yards) apart?

Simon
sedgewedge
dont know if this is going to work!!!



google street view
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=52.93422,0.49...145.73,,0,11.01

how petty!!! Im so cross and still sure I wasn't bleeding speeding!!!
Pete D
Well it is a clean ping and it appears that you may have sped up in anticipation of the 40 Limit and he pinged you before you got there. Well worth checking the TRO for the sign though as it may be your only defence. Pete D
CuriousOrange
QUOTE (sedgewedge @ Wed, 12 Oct 2011 - 13:51) *
they had zapped me much further up the road literally as I was going from 30 into a 40. I dont think Im far off being level with the 40 sign!!!


You're being misled by what you think you see. Foreshortening makes things appear closer together than they are in reality.


The three signs on the left, for instance, look like they're on top of each other yet the Sea Front and the brown sign are here whereas the speed camera warning sign is much further up the road here.

The traffic lights in the foreground are even further back, here.

It the camera van was in the police station forecourt the ~300 m on the photo puts you about where the Sea Front sign is, rather than the 40 mph limit.




sedgewedge
thanks curiousorange i have done the measurements on google maps distance calculator and must have been within the last 70m of the 30 zone. have written an apologetic/grovel letter to include with NIP, my dad had died a few days before incident and head was in a bit of a mess! Will just have to take it on the chin! what a sad and pathetic world we live in catching people like that, only 6MPH over!
Pete D
The letter should indicate your interest in a speed awareness course to encourage them to at least offer you one. Pete D
The Rookie
If you car was past the last street lamp (on the right opposite the side turn) then there is a good chance you were outside the 30 limit which almost certainly ends there and NOT at the 40 sign, whatever, it is still worth obtaining a copy of any TRO to make sure the limits are as signed and that the signs are not (as is common) incorrectly placed.

Simon
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