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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Trial of failing to stop/report driving with undue care and attention
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asid3
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - February 2011
Date of the NIP: - 135 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 137 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Tonge moor road bolton
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - been to court and here was my explanation of true events
the car was on sale on that day a couple who showed intrest came directly to me for the car they took it for a test drive they left there car keys and mobile as a deposit which my wife held secure till they arrived once gone they were more than an hour i managed to take down address details of the driver by veiwing his insurance details , they returned after returning they then said they were not intrested in the car so they returned the car keys i returned their deposit ,
a few days later i received a police nip summons for failing to stop and report and undue care on tongemoor road (matalan car park)
i took a look at the car and saw my brake light cracked aswell as my bumper cracked and my caravan hook scratched . i then realised what had happened at the time ....
i filled in the appropriate feilds except the date of birth as i did not have it nor was it of importance to me at the time ,

the other party received theres until they were given a second notice on the second notice they received the police received a reply stating his name and number as correct

later the police made several attempts to contact the other party but no reply only 5 mins of call being answered as im driving and call me back later was stated by the other party

i then received a summons asking me to come to court as it was me

i turned up to court on the 22nd of september , at the case i was told wat i have just typed above by the prosecutor he also said the reason was that there was no birth date and that the other party had not been fully cooperative

i then handed the other parties partners name to the prosecutor who jotted it down ,

i pleaded not guilty to all the accusations at that time , as i was at home with the wife

the prosecutors advanced hand book has a witness who heard a thud and saw an asian man come out of the car to inspect the damage.
and is willing to testify i put up my wife as a witness also whom is also willing to testify ,

the magistrates adjourned the case to dec 07 2011 i was told that the penalty carries imprisonment and that if i understood what would happen if i didnt attend


please advise as to what will happen and why am i on trial i am worried about this as i went in with no representation , being my first court appearance never have been to court for anything before

thank you


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the Section 172 statement naming the person you believe was driving.
    You aren't incriminating them - they'll receive a NIP to complete themselves in due course.

    (You might also like to let that person know that they can expect to receive one, and give them the link to this Wizard for when it arrives!)

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 22:47:12 +0000
jobo
im not following

someone drove your car on test

you get a nip for the time they were driving

you name them

they in turn name you( which if they wernt at yours, testing your car, they would have no idea who you are to name you OR did they just not reply

your now in court for failing to stop etc, despite not ever, admitting to being the driver

is that about right?

can you post the exact charges and any statement of facts off the summons please
asid3
The offences were

failing to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle allegedly iguilty of an offence contrary to ection 172(3)...

drove the car without due care and attention

failed to stop after an accident occured and failed to give details to someone on reasonable grounds had them
police had rang him several times but had not succeeded only on one occasion as stated above

police did not pay him a home visit as the prosecutor stated that it was a different force persuing it

the car was taken for a test drive

i get a nip for the time they were driving 13:20 hrs

i named them but with no date of birth his womans name also

not sure if they named me
asid3
can any one tell what will happen or the most likely outcome ?
The Rookie
Well if you put the facts together in a coherent manner you should be found not guilty....that means a lot more coherenet than you've presented here.

To be clear, unless the person you named claimed you were driving the car (and that completed form would be in the evidence pack) then there is absolutely no proof you were driving (even that wouldn't normally be enough) and you cannot be found guilty of the driving offences unless you admit it on the day.

Have the Police submitted any evidence at all that suggests your nomination was wrong, if the person you named has simply not responded that is not sufficient evidence, nor can you reasonably be expected to know a strangers DOB.

Simon
jobo
as simon said really


either there is something with in the summons pack which your not telling us or the police and the cps have lost their minds, there isnt a default system were if they cant trace the named driver they can convict the RK, no matter how suspicious it may be that a test driver stops off at matalan to buy socks

failing some other way of you being identified as driver, witness cctv etc, there seems no way of convicting you of the offences, they could maybe have ago at other offences but not those ones

you make reference above to a witness seeing an ''Asian man'', are you an ''Asian man'', was the test driver an ''Asian man'' and this statement is included in the pack ?

have there been any other contact l;ike being interviewed by the police or them poping round for a chat ? whats this about the police ringing you up ?


if what your saying stands up to scrutiny, my feeling is a good solicitor is the way to go, as its hard to see how you can lose, if represented well and therefore cost will be paid ( as long as your not in Scotland ) in fact i cant see it even getting to court if a solicitor ring up up the cps and says '' your having a laugh''
BB Law
Asid3

Your case has almost certainly been adjourned for a trial. Have you informed the court and CPS of the witness evidence that you agree (if any) and the witness evidence you do not agree (and therefore who's attendance you require at the trial hearing)?

With regard to the Due care, Fail stop/report offences, the case will revolve around whether the CPS can prove you were driving. What evidence, if any, has been disclosed to you that could possibly suggest that you were the driver?

BB Law

asid3
Thanks for the reply jobo the police were unable to track him apparently

Now they say they are intrested in the witness the prosecutor has a witness who saw an asian man get out of his car to inspect the damage

My wife is also a witness

now on the failing side they would need to

1: prove i was there through the witness or cctv is this allowed ?

2: i am clearly a man of arab/pakistani and indian origion

my name is clearly arab and or indian/pakistani

no contact from the police no chat no calls nothing

asid3
BB law

i have not informed the court or the cps of the witness statements that i agree or dont agree

i have said i would like my wife to be there as a witness at the trial hearing as asked by a mn in glasses questioning the cps



jobo
so was the other guy asian or not ?

they are leaving a very big hole for themselves as if the test driver, is named john smith, it doesnt mean he isnt of Mediterranean appearance and seem as they havent found him they wont know,

dock identifications are frowned up so if the witness turn up at court and said '' yes thats him'' it wouldnt really work against you

but as your straying into a legal minefield, i revert to go and get a solicitor

if there is a suggestion that the person you named either doesnt exist or denies being the driver, they might have a chance at failure to name driver charge, but they will have try very hard to establish you were the driver to get these charges to stick
southpaw82
Did you name the driver or did you say "it could have been Mr X or Mrs X"?
CuriousOrange
QUOTE (asid3 @ Fri, 23 Sep 2011 - 23:47) *
i filled in the appropriate feilds...the other party received theres until they were given a second notice on the second notice they received the police received a reply stating his name and number as correct...later the police made several attempts to contact the other party but no reply only 5 mins of call being answered as im driving and call me back later was stated by the other party...not sure if they named me
So, you know (somehow) that there were two notices sent to this other party, that the other party replied to the second "stating his name and number as correct" (what does that mean?)...then they try contacting this other party by phone "as stated by the other party" - what does that bit mean?
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