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rommel
Hi, was just kindly given a link to this forum over from uk-mkivs.net and thought I'd follow it up.

About 12 days ago I was allegedly spotted by a camera van doing 61mph through a 50 zone on the A1 at Washington services.  A letter from the constabulary arrived on my doorstep on Saturday which I've already signed and sent back to say I was driving at the time.

Is it too late to ask for evidence in proof of the offence when they reply again?  Am I right in thinking the next I hear from them will most likely be to tell me to send my licence off and payment of fine details?

Thanks in advance, wish I'd heard of this site sooner!
Jase00
Your right on all counts sad.gif
DW190
QUOTE (Jason M)
Your right on all counts sad.gif


Unless the speed was so excessive that a court appearance would be required.
andy_foster
QUOTE (rommel)
Am I right in thinking the next I hear from them will most likely be to tell me to send my licence off and payment of fine details?


Almost. Assuming that the alleged speed is within the guidelines, you will be offered a fixed penalty.
rommel
hmm,  dam.  Well just have to take it on the chin then I suppose.  

Thanks for the replies though.
10 Bears
QUOTE (rommel)
hmm,  damn.  Well just have to take it on the chin then I suppose.


Not necesarily. You could ignore the offer of fixed penalty (if it arrives), go to court and plead guilty straight away, thus (possibly) avoiding costs (??) and depriving the Shaftey Camera Partneship of your money (??)(others more knowledgeable than I could confirm this). Or if you have the bottle (and I didn't, so it is not a course of action I am recommending) you might be able to defeat it on a technicality. But you might need a slick lawyer to help you with that !
rommel
Huh??!  So couple of questions to ask you there please 10Bears...

Q.  Do they not always bother sending an 'offer' of fixed penalty, and how long can I expect it to take?
Q.  I'm assuming it will be for 65 snots and 3 points, is that right?
Q.  Erm, so assuming someone ignored the penalty and did what you've suggested about pleading guilty how would that avoid me getting 3 points and paying a fine plus costs?  Has this been done before then?
Q.  When an offer of paying a fixed penalty comes through, can I just reply requesting proof before I cough up, in a probably vain hope that they can't supply any?

Btw I drove past there again, it looks very much like they have set up a temporary camera at the end of a slip road which joins into these roadworks at Washington services.  It's pretty easy to miss if that's what it is, especially if you're already on the carriageway and not on the sliproad as you pass.

Am I right in thinking that these things that look like a small security type camera or two on a tripod are temporary/mobile speed cameras?
10 Bears
Rommel
None of my suggestions will avoid you having to pay a fine and getting at least 3 points.

As I understand it, if the exess speed is less than a certain limit then the offence may be dealt with with an offer of a fixed penalty (42 in a 30 got me an offer of fixed penalty). If you accept the offer of the fixed penalty then you do not have to go to court, but simply send in your licence together with your £60, and a few weeks later you get your licence back with 3 extra points on it that will then cost you extra in insurance premiums for the next 5 years, and the Shaftey Camera Partnership pocket your £60 and go off and buy more cameras and vans to make our roads even more lucrative !! oops safe !!
If on the other hand, you ignore the offer of a fixed penalty, they will then refer the matter to the Magistrates Court and a Summons will be issued.
At this stage you can plead guilty by post. You will still have to pay the fine and have the points on your licence, but, as I understand it, the Shaftey Camera Partnership will not get your money. This is a small consolation prize for you, and it also bungs up the works of the court system a bit, since they have to set a hearing date, the CPS have to send a prosecutor to the court, etc etc. There may be a risk that the fine might be larger.
Your third option, and most risky, would be to plead not guilty to the summons, and demand disclosure of their evidence against you, and hope that they fcuk up on their proceedures with regard to admissability of the evidence and use of the equipment. To take this course there may be a slim chance of beating them altogether, and sticking them for your costs. This is the way that many people on this forum have had successes, but it is risky, and you really would need a slick lawyer. If you lost the fine would be larger and you would have prosecution costs awarded against you, as well as your own costs.

Finally, in my opinion, just because you have filled in their forms properly and admitted to being the driver at the time of the alleged offence is not an addmission of guilt, unless you want it to be. They still have to prove the offence if you challenge them.
rommel
Ah, well, thanks taking the time and explaining this more concisely.  I understand the situation a lot more fully now.  

I have 3 points already, awarded nearly 5 years ago by a traffic cop.  I was caught by a hand timer thing in his car crossing a white dot in the road and averaging 47 in a 30 zone (in a quiet industrial estate of all places).  At that situation it was much more clear cut, the evidence was there before me and so on and so forth.

Unfortunately my insurance is going to love this then when I renew in November.
rolleyes.gif  :roll:  :roll:

Mind you I think I can get the three points from last time removed by now, it was Feb 2001 when I got them, so I could bring it back to 3 pts again I hope. I'll have to find out what the fee is for doing that.

Many thanks again for your help!
OU812
QUOTE (rommel)
I have 3 points already, awarded nearly 5 years ago by a traffic cop.


Points are only valid for 3 years and can be removed (physically) from your licence after 4 IIRC. Is your insurer specifically asking you to declare points older than that?
rommel
Yeah, when I renewed the wifes car insurance in April they were asking for declaration of convictions within the last 5 years!   That's what annoys me most about getting the 3 points - the knock on effect last for years.
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