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cabby John
The situation is this.

The road is a dual carriageway and I believe it is 70 mph speed limit.


Husband and wife out driving and the husband feels unwell and pulls over on to a hard shoulder. The wife takes over the driving and some days late receives a NIP stating that car was scammed @48 mph in a 40 mph area.

Neither one can recollect as to who was driving as it was not relevant at the time, and are not sure at what point they stopped to change over as other matters had precedent (illness).

The other point is having revisited the alleged 40 mph area, it appears that work is going on, hence the lower speed limit. So do the scamera people have to produce evidence that the correct signage was in place at the time, as it is quite possible that because it is not fixed then it could be moved away quite easily, and the motorist would not then see it.

Your help would be gratefully received.

Kickaha
Do the NIP Wizard and attach it to this thread so we have the full info.
cabby John
QUOTE (Kickaha @ Fri, 10 Jun 2011 - 16:52) *
Do the NIP Wizard and attach it to this thread so we have the full info.



Is this what you mean, if it is I have answered it with as much as I know.


Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving
Kickaha
You can write to them asking for "any photos to help identify the driver" - DO NOT use the word evidence as it puts them off. You also should be aware that asking for photos does not stop the clock on when you have to respond by.

If you do not name the driver you will be charged with failing to furnish - 6 points, big fine and the ins. companies do not like it. If you do manage to identify and name the driver you will probably be offered a speed awareness course (as long as you are not in Scotland, and the driver has not done one in the last 3 years). This will cost more than the FPN, but you do not get any points.

The problem with "not sure who was driving" is it has been tried so many times. It is very difficult to satisfy the magistrates (it is 99% certain to go to court) that two adults cannot remember who was driving 2 weeks after the event, especially as the journey was memorable in that you took ill.

If I was in your position I would name the person who was most likely to be the driver at that point in the journey. If you do name the driver, make sure that you do not qualify the naming in any way - lots of people have come unstuck by putting "I think it was XXXXX, or "it was probably me" - just name the driver.

On the question of signage, as I understand it you would need to show that it was defective or missing - so if it is wrong get some photos.
The Rookie
Try the NIP wizard again using the additional questions button

Simon
cabby John
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2011
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A469/A472 at Cwm Ddu Roundabout Ystrad Mynach
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Registered keeper.
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - As per original post.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 12:48:55 +0000
BaggieBoy
42?

Seriously, dont start new threads for existing cases. Original here.
cabby John
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sat, 11 Jun 2011 - 13:56) *
42?

Seriously, dont start new threads for existing cases. Original here.



Sorry you have lost me on this one.

The above is the same as the original after I was requested to fill in more details. I pressed the save button...............and here we are.

What is 42?
cabby John
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 10 Jun 2011 - 22:04) *
Try the NIP wizard again using the additional questions button

Simon



NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2011
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A469/A472 at Cwm Ddu Roundabout Ystrad Mynach
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Registered keeper.
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - As per original post.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.


AFCNEAL
Given the circumstances you will know where one driver was taken ill and the other took over? So unless there is avague locus defence it should be very easy to be sure who was driving?
roadrunner 163
Nothing so far suggests there is a good case for reasonable diligence in being unable to name the driver, the junction is a major roundabout and I assume the drivers are locals, even if they are not a quick viewing of google maps may refresh their memory.. The mags could look quite unfavourably on the fail to furnish charge were the speed may attract an offer of speed awareness course if the speeder was identified.

The Rookie
If you can't name THE driver any issues over alleged speed or signage becomes irrelevant, if you can name THE driver then we can investigate signage issues.

The law requires you to excercise reasonable dilligence in trying to ID the driver, when both possible drivers are in the car (commonly referred to as the Hamilton defence after Christine and Neil got a not guilty verdict) it makes it harder as clearly evidence placing a person at the scene doesn't mean they were driving.

Does neither of you recall driving through roadwroks?

Simon
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