Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Missed first Court Summons what happens at second
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
dougfisher
Hello long time browser , first time posting.

I got caught doing 77mph in a 40mph limit back in January 2011. The police officer told me I was going to be summoned to court.

I received a court summons to the address that the car I was caught in was registed too, however I was staying at a different address when the letter was received. I was suspossed to appear in court on the 25th May but as I have only picked up my post today I missed that appearance.

I have another letter now telling me that the case is adjourned and I now have to be in court next week. This means I cannot plead quilty by post which
I was intending to do. By me missing the first court summons does that mean that the magistarates will be looking to apply extra punishment as I have appeared
to ignore the first court summons or is it all going to be based upon how I present myself in the court day. Basically have I shot myself in the foot here by not picking up my post earlier and not replying?

I'm fully expecting a ban just don't know for how long

Thanks
jobo
no its of no consequence really, provieded you show up this time

at that speed you looking at a short ban, which is why they want you there, therefore you mitigation should be around why they shouldnt ban you at all or not for very long

TheBeak
It is of consequence, as the maximum discount is for a guilty plea at the first opportunity - and if you've missed the first hearing, you've missed the boat.

However, an apology and explanation should see you OK.

And you will be looking at a short ban - ca. 28 days. Fine of 1 weeks income, less 1/3 if you apologise for missing the first hearing, + £85 costs + £15 Victim Surcharge.
jobo
QUOTE (TheBeak @ Wed, 1 Jun 2011 - 23:55) *
It is of consequence, as the maximum discount is for a guilty plea at the first opportunity - and if you've missed the first hearing, you've missed the boat.

However, an apology and explanation should see you OK.

And you will be looking at a short ban - ca. 28 days. Fine of 1 weeks income, less 1/3 if you apologise for missing the first hearing, + £85 costs + £15 Victim Surcharge.


Its of noconsequence coz the guilty plea needs to be entered at the ealiest Opertunity and this IS his earliest opertunity, however an explination, is , i agree required so the court understand this
dougfisher
thanks for replies, do you think it is worth me writing a letter to the court explaing what happened or is it a waste of time as the hearing is next wenensday?
dougfisher
thanks for replies, do you think it is worth me writing a letter to the court explaing what happened or is it a waste of time as the hearing is next wenensday?
jobo
QUOTE (dougfisher @ Thu, 2 Jun 2011 - 00:30) *
thanks for replies, do you think it is worth me writing a letter to the court explaing what happened or is it a waste of time as the hearing is next wenensday?


cost of a stamp and it wont do any harm, so why not, but say it again when you get there and dont drive to court

if you want to prepare a why you shouldnt ban me statment and post it up, we can comment,, focus on problems to others rather than yourself
The Rookie
With jobo, by all means write, I doubt it will be of any consequence, this clearly IS your earliest opportunity and the simple explanation to the magistrates will see that understood. How long were you away from that address such you never went back between summons arriving and court date?

Simon
dougfisher
The car is registed at my parents place. I was last there to pick up post on 5th May. The first letter is dated the 5th May for an appearance for the 25th may. I could just have easily been on holiday at that time or working abroad.

I will write a letter , I don't think it can do any harm although I'm not sure who I address it too??

Just have to get the suit out now any wait for the envitable.

The Rookie
You address any letter to the court, the same address as the original summons almost certainly provided for you to send a plea by post to.

Simon
dougfisher
Ok , here is the letter I am going to send to the court hopefully today

"Dear Worships of the Court.

I have recently received a court summons for a speeding offence that had taken place in January 2011. The Original court summons was for me to appear in court was for a hearing on the 25th May. This letter was dated the 5th May and was sent to the address that my car and driving licence are registered to. Unfortunately I was not staying at this address during the month of May. I was last at the address on the 4th May and only returned on the 1st June. As I had not returned to the address earlier I had not received my post which contained the original Court summons and the subsequent summons hearing letter for the 8th June.

Had I received the original court summons before the original hearing date it was my Intention to plead guilty by post using the form in the original summons letter. I know that it is too late for me to return this letter now and it is my fault for not collecting my post earlier but I wanted to let the court know this before I attended the hearing on the 8th June.

I have included the signed plead guilty by post form as a sign of my sincerity."

What do you thing, is it a bit too short on substance ?

Thanks again!

The Rookie
Too Much waffle, and it will be open by a clerk, how about...

Dear Sir/Madam,
Please find enclosed my plea form, the summons was dated 5th May for a hearing on the 25th May, however as I was away from home for this period I did not recieve the summons prior to the hearing.

Whilst I anticpated a new hearing will be scheduled for me to attend, I am trying to simplify matters by making it clear that I do not wish to take up unnecesary court time by sending this plea now.

Yours faithfully
Dougfisher
dougfisher
Thanks The Rookie smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

That does seem more to the point.

I will send that off with my plea form.

Now I have the weekend to work on my mitagating cirumstances. huh.gif huh.gif huh.gif huh.gif
dougfisher
Ok,

Off to court tomorrow, I have a letter from my employer saying how I need my license for my job.

I have put together a mititgation that I am going to read in court, what do you guys think? I am usless when it comes to this stuff:



"Your Worships

I am both embarrassed and ashamed to be here in front of you.
This is my first time in front of the court and I have no intention of being here again.

On that day I had been through a very stressfull Job interview that had drained me mentally. As a result I was foolishly in a rust to get home to end the day and had a momentary lapse of the awareness of the speed I was doing. The 3 lane Dual carriage way I was on was clear and the traffic conditions were good.

My Job as field service engineer necessitaes that I can drive around london. I am currently in a 3 month probationary period in my new job and I don't know if me being banned will have an effect on if I continue my employment with the company.

I fully understand that a ban in evitable but I ask the court to be lenient in my sentance.

I apologise to the court for taking up your time today, I have pleaded guilty to take up as little of your time as possible"

Short but too the point!!

any changes you think I should make ??

I don't have any kids, I have a reasonble job, I don't have any dependands, I'm not married and I rent the place where I live!!!!
jobo
QUOTE (dougfisher @ Tue, 7 Jun 2011 - 17:06) *
Ok,

Off to court tomorrow, I have a letter from my employer saying how I need my license for my job.

I have put together a mititgation that I am going to read in court, what do you guys think? I am usless when it comes to this stuff:



"Your Worships

I am both embarrassed and ashamed to be here in front of you.
This is my first time in front of the court and I have no intention of being here again.

On that day I had been through a very stressfull Job interview that had drained me mentally. As a result I was foolishly in a rust to get home to end the day and had a momentary lapse of the awareness of the speed I was doing. The 3 lane Dual carriage way I was on was clear and the traffic conditions were good.

My Job as field service engineer necessitaes that I can drive around london. I am currently in a 3 month probationary period in my new job and I don't know if me being banned will have an effect on if I continue my employment with the company.

I fully understand that a ban in evitable but I ask the court to be lenient in my sentance.

I apologise to the court for taking up your time today, I have pleaded guilty to take up as little of your time as possible"

Short but too the point!!

any changes you think I should make ??

I don't have any kids, I have a reasonble job, I don't have any dependands, I'm not married and I rent the place where I live!!!!


either way, your ban will inconvenience your employer no end

i would apologizes unreservedly and leave out the bollux about being stressed, just say it was out of charector and not a mistake you will make again, as you now realise the consequences of such a stupid action

then,, you understand a ban will happen, but you ask them to take the following in to consideration when setting the duration

your loss of job/ home
the damage to your employers business
are you sure you dont have a mom you need to visit/take shopping
BicycleRepairMan
do you have kids, will they be affected if you have no car? do you look after anyone elderly who will not be able to benefit from your frequent visits.

Concentrate on making a ban look like it disadvantages mainly other people dependent on you rather than you directly
dougfisher
Hello,

I was in Court on the 8th June for excessive speed , I posted here and got some good advice, went to Court and got a 40 day ban and £430 fine.
(£330 fine , £15 surchage plus £85 costs).

I was asked by the court if I could paid on the day to which I agreed and stuck the whole lot on credit card.

I have now received a Notice of unpaid fine through the post say that I have not paid £55 of my fine, which states that my total fine was £485!
As i have paid the £430 they are chasing the £55. Ovbiously this is more than was agreed by the magistates on the day. I have the payment information sheet that was given to me by the magistrates with the total amout of £430.

Is this just going to be a clerical error which can easily be sorted out or is it a case of proving that was not the agreed amout??

I am going to phone the court in the morning to have a talk with them but was wondering if anyone has had this happen to them before and how it work out ?

Cheers !!

Logician
Sounds like a clerical error, but since you have a piece of paper from the court showing a lower figure that agrees with your recollection, you seem to be in a very good position to get it put right.
The Rookie
Did you pay a £430 fine and not the £55 that could well be costs+tax?

Simon
dougfisher
I paid the £430 total amount that the magistrates told me to and was on the payment information sheet that they gave me under the amout total.

At no point did they mention anything about more money or tax to pay etc, I was just usher our of court and told to pay using the phone on wall using an automated service. I went back to see the Court Clerk as I did not know if I could go , or if I had to give him a referance number etc

I am trying to get through to someone now however the phone just endlessly rings!
dougfisher
Well just spoken to someone at the payment services.

They are saying that I could be lying and could have changed the amout myself so I have to go back to the court today and have a talk to them about the error and get them to pull the file out and make the alterations.

They said that I could pay the amount now then apply to the court for a refund but I don't think It would be more hassle trying to get my money back.

off to court I go again..........
Glacier2
I don't understand how can pay up straight away in any case. Normally you can't pay a fine until it is registered in the system maybe the next day or so.
dougfisher
Well......

Went to Hendon Magistrates Court, got there at about 12.00 , enquires counter is open 1.30 - 2.30. Waited around till 2.30 , spoke to quite a helpfull lady at the counter who advised me to call Brent admin centre as they would be able to answer my quirey. After going back and forth with phone numbers I finally managed to speak to some one the in admin centre who would pull my case file and have look to see what the records are.

About an hour later she had my file which said that the amount that I was fined was £485 total ( £385 fine , £15 surcharge and £85 costs ). Because the case file says the total amount is £485 I have no recourse unless I want to go back to court to have the case re-opened for the magistrates to have a look. The person I spoke to in the admin centre says there is a good chance that the fine could go even higher if I pursue this route.

The piece of paper I have been give - the payment information sheet is apprantly filled out by the court clerk who apprantly wrote down the wrong amount atlhough I'm sure the magistates said £430 quid not £485. So there you have it , another £55 to pay.

Have to laugh, guy in from of me had received a fine of £860 quid for a convition he was aquitted for back in 1999!! The only advise he was given was to pay it and then try and appeal the amount! ohmy.gif
TheBeak
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 20 Jun 2011 - 11:13) *
I don't understand how can pay up straight away in any case. Normally you can't pay a fine until it is registered in the system maybe the next day or so.


You can in the north! Fines can be paid on the day by card or cash and this is positively encouraged by the court. Any fine imposed is due immediately.

QUOTE (dougfisher @ Mon, 20 Jun 2011 - 18:25) *
Well......

Went to Hendon Magistrates Court, got there at about 12.00 , enquires counter is open 1.30 - 2.30. Waited around till 2.30 , spoke to quite a helpfull lady at the counter who advised me to call Brent admin centre as they would be able to answer my quirey. After going back and forth with phone numbers I finally managed to speak to some one the in admin centre who would pull my case file and have look to see what the records are.

About an hour later she had my file which said that the amount that I was fined was £485 total ( £385 fine , £15 surcharge and £85 costs ). Because the case file says the total amount is £485 I have no recourse unless I want to go back to court to have the case re-opened for the magistrates to have a look. The person I spoke to in the admin centre says there is a good chance that the fine could go even higher if I pursue this route.

The piece of paper I have been give - the payment information sheet is apprantly filled out by the court clerk who apprantly wrote down the wrong amount atlhough I'm sure the magistates said £430 quid not £485. So there you have it , another £55 to pay.

Have to laugh, guy in from of me had received a fine of £860 quid for a convition he was aquitted for back in 1999!! The only advise he was given was to pay it and then try and appeal the amount! ohmy.gif


£385 does not sound right for a fine - assuming you got 1/3 off for a Guilty Plea, as the starting point would be £577.50. When you completed a means form, can you remember what you put down for your monthly or weekly income? That would be used as the basis for your fine. So weekly income of £300, Band B Fine = £300, Less Discount = £200. Band C = £450, Less Discount = £300. See if you can work back to a reasonable figure.


Logician
Another option would be to try to speak to the actual court clerk who was dealing with your matter and wrote out your form and the case file, and ask him/her to resolve the issue.
dougfisher
I put down £500 a month as my take home pay on my means form. I did however given them 3 weeks of payslips ( I'm a contractor so I get paid evey week but the amount varies dependant on if i do OT that week etc, one of which was over £550 inc expenses ) which at the end of the hearing they asked if I wanted back to which I said no as they were just printouts from a website - the magistrates didn't look at them when the decided how much fine I shoud pay, prehaps they check them later on ??????????

The lady i spoke to in the admin centre said that my fine amount was similar amount to other cases that had been heard that day for a similar offence so not out ordinary. It doen't quite add up though.

Unfortuneatly I'm going on holiday tomorrow for a week so I won't be able to try to talk to the clerk , if I don't pay it by the end of this week they said they are handing the amount over to the balifs who will doublt it !!
TheBeak
Do you mean £500 a week or a month take home? It is important.

It looks as if the bench have fined you at band B (100%) on an RWI of £500, less 1/3 for an early guilty plea, which is £330 (£333 rounded down). Plus the £85 costs + £15 VS makes the £430 you walked away with. The RWI used should have been announced in court and be on the court record. Your means form should also be there.

RWI = Relevant Weekly Income.

The means form is normally completed with weekly figures and the bench may have mistaken your monthly for a weekly figure and fined you too much if they were going for a Band B fine.

If there has been a mistake with the RWI and the recording of the fine, you should ask the court to re-open the matter. Otherwise, you would need to appeal the sentence to the Crown Court.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.