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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
purpleozzie
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2011
Date of the NIP: - 15 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 19 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A38 Patchway Northbound, Bristol > M5
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Hire Car
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Caught doing 48 in a 40 in a Hire Car. A new stretch of road which is a lovely dual carriageway not in a built up area so thought the speed limit was 60. Spoke with Safety cam team to ask for photographic evidence and they say the photos are from behind and do not ID the driver. Is there anyway to get off this. Obviously the hire care company have paperwork to show I was the registered keeper at the time if the offence.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:03:10 +0000
peterguk
So far, nothing you've said constitutes a defence.

If you were the driver at the time, you need to name yourself on the S.172, sign, and return the form within 28 days of receipt.

48 in a 40 will most likely win you a SAC in lieu of points.
purpleozzie
I was caught speeding at the end of March. I received a letter two weeks later asking whether I nwas the driver. I sent this back to say that I was.

I didn't hear anything back for a while I assumed this was because all speed cameras got turned off two days after I was caught grr. Which may have meant a delay in processing as there was no longer a specific department dealing with fixed camera speeding offences.

However, on saturday, I received a summons to state that I hadn't informed them who was driving. I now do not know what to do??

The letter I sent them was sent first class so no proof of postage unfortunately,

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Barney
Logician
What is the wording on the summons, is it only for the s172 or is it for the original speeding as well?
If so, the CPS will usually drop the s172 in return for a guilty plea to the speeding, and in your case your defence is that you did return the form, whereas in most cases the motorist is claiming that they never received the request to name the driver.
purpleozzie
It's for both the speeding and failing to name the driver..
Pete D
What exactly did you fill in, and did you sign it. Pete D
Logician
In that case I suggest you enter a pleas of not guilty to both charges, attend court early on the day and ask for the CPS prosecutor dealing with traffic matters to be pointed out to you. Approach him/her, identify yourself and explain that you will be defending the s172 on the basis that you did return the form identifying yourself within the period allowed but received no response. However, you do not deny you were speeding and will change your plea to G to speeding, if the s172 is dropped. Most CPS prosecutors will readily accept this.

The reason for not initially pleading G to the speeding is that possibly they would accept that and still pursue the s172 charge.
purpleozzie
The original letter I sent back to the traffic unit I obviously signed and admitted to it...

The summons I have in my hand and haven't done anything with...
3phase278
QUOTE (purpleozzie @ Mon, 1 Aug 2011 - 15:25) *
The original letter I sent back to the traffic unit I obviously signed and admitted to it...

The summons I have in my hand and haven't done anything with...


Just to double check, did you just fill out the s.172 form naming yourself with no extra additions or covering letters along the lines of "pretty sure it was me" or "can't be sure, but probably was me" etc.?

It's not unusual for a summons to be sent if there's any element of doubt with the 'admission'

If you just signed the form with no other elaboration, then follow Logician's advice in post 5
Hotel Oscar 87
If we are talking an area in which the cameras recently got turned off then this could well be Wiltshire who have specific form for dual-charging. Logician's advice is on the money.
BaggieBoy
Avon & Somerset assuming this is the original thread. Hopefully a mod will merge the threads.
southpaw82
God damn! One case, one thread! How freakin' hard is it?
purpleozzie
Hi,

I was allegedly caught speeding doing 48 in a 40 back in March. I sent the police a letter conforming that I was the driver but I didn't believe I was speeding and asking for additional information (I drive that stretch of road virtually every day and I know what the speed limit is).

I didn't hear anything back for months and then received a summons for failing to give information of the driver.

I sent a letter to the court stating that the police must have mislaid my letter and they basically said that they had passed on the information to the police and there was no point turning up at summons date because they would just adjourn the case until they had more info from the police.

I have now received a letter for a pre-trial hearing in 2 weeks time. I have toi fill in questions about points of law I will rely on and any witnesses I am going to dall.

I just want this to be over. I can't really afford to pay a £1000 fine and definitely cannot afford 6 points. What should I do?

Thanks
Broadsword
The obvious question is what proof do you have that you replied to the police?
purpleozzie
None.. I sent it first class.. I which I had sent it recorded I just didn't think.. You'd also think that the police would send you another letter saying we havent received a reply please reply ASAP or you will have to go to court...
Logician
Oh dear, you have started a new thread on the same case and can expect a sharp rap over the knuckles. You got advice about what to do on the previous thread; as you have been dual charged you should be able to come to an arrangement in court for the s172 to be dropped in exchange for a guilty plea to the speeding.
desktop_demon
Did the OP have any witnesses to the posting of the letter sent in reply? Was it posted in a post office (camera) or did a friend partner witness the envelope being sealed - that sort of thing? if the OP can offer some proof of posting a reply then there is some chance of an acquittal - otherwise it is an uphill struggle to convince the court an answer was provided. it shouldn't be but it is....
morrisman
Did the letter to the police state unequivocally that you were the driver?
3phase278
as per morrisman above, from your last thread...

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=612936

^quote^ "Just to double check, did you just fill out the s.172 form naming yourself with no extra additions or covering letters along the lines of "pretty sure it was me" or "can't be sure, but probably was me" etc.?

It's not unusual for a summons to be sent if there's any element of doubt with the 'admission'

If you just signed the form with no other elaboration, then follow Logician's advice in post 5"


so did you?
jimster
QUOTE (purpleozzie @ Mon, 7 Nov 2011 - 11:21) *
I was allegedly caught speeding doing 48 in a 40 back in March. I sent the police a letter conforming that I was the driver but I didn't believe I was speeding and asking for additional information (I drive that stretch of road virtually every day and I know what the speed limit is).


From the original thread

QUOTE
"Caught doing 48 in a 40 in a Hire Car. A new stretch of road which is a lovely dual carriageway not in a built up area so thought the speed limit was 60. "


Which is it?
southpaw82
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 1 Aug 2011 - 18:28) *
God damn! One case, one thread! How freakin' hard is it?


Apparently very freakin' hard for you. Start one more thread on this and you'll be seeking advice elsewhere.
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