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bazzer25
1. England
2. Lancashire Constabulary
3. 6.5.2005
4. 6.6.2005
5. 8.6.2005
6. Yes
7. 1st Class Post
8. Company Car
9. UK
10. Zero

On Blackburn ring road just pulled away from lights went up the hill to see a van with rear doors open and an officer with a camera. My company informed them of my address and I received the NIP today I rang there Helpline and asked if I could have the picture as I'm not happy about the speed that is says I was doing 76mph in a 50mph zone. She said I must return the signed NIP and she would sent the picture out she also said the camera had been calibrated. I siad could I wait to return the NIP till after I had seen the picture she said the sooner I sent it the better and that it had to be signed and returned within 28 days.

I'm not convinced in my own mind that I was doing that speed as I travel that piece of road regularly. Can I request full video evidence or ask about the calibration on that day ? Any advise greatly appeciated
chadders
I love that phone call - brilliant - return the signed NIP, don't be glum about the points and fine - you'll have some nice pictures!

You will want to put the request for pictures in writing to them. After all it is over a month ago.

The bad news, based on them asserting you did 76mph in a 50mph is that it will end up in a court summons and a possible 6 points and/or 14 - 56 day ban  :!:

Current Magistrate Guidelines Here

That said, there are options open that I'm sure other more knowledgable members will provide input on.
Lance
This is a two stage process:[list]You are at stage 1. Little point to mention issues that belong to stage 2, e.g. querying the speed.

If you want photos, forces often only give them out in the first stage to help identify the driver, and sometimes not even then. If you don't know who was driving, say so. If you do know, then either name then on the NIP, or, if it's you, consider the PACE statement as an alternative.

Then if there is a round 2, plead NG to the speeding and question the evidence.
chadders
Lance has explained your next steps well, I merely raise what - if left unchallenged - they will 'get you for'.

The 'golden rule' is to communicate as little with the scammers as possible, and when you do, keep it short and simple. Have a hunt around you will find similar short 'n' sweet letters for requesting photo's.

When / if you get the photo's you may also be able to use them to calculate your speed yourself.
bazzer25
I got the pictures today and very nice too, yes it is me but I still don't believe the speed I have used that road about twice a week for the last 10 years and no way 76mph. there is a * by the speed but that just means its out of pre set range is that significant other than it was fast. From what I read the next stage is a PACE letter. They have warned me that failure to sign the NIP will cause me to be summons for "Failing to Furnish"it says a recent High Court case requires the keeper or nominated driver to complete and sign the form. Is this another scare tactic ? What next ?
matt1133
Failure to furnish will result in 3 points plus bigger fine and insurance hike, they could ban but that is highly unlikely with a S172 conviction

Speeding summons having supplied the details results in a potential ban
andy_foster
Recent High Court cases (Broomfield and Francis) have confimed that you must comply with a reasonable request to sign the s.172 response. Another recent High Court case (Jones - which was cited in Francis) decided that a written and sign response, containing all the required information satisfies the requirements of s.172.
Lance
Refusing to sign the S172 notice will not necessarily get you into hot water. Refusing to provide the information requested in writing, signed will. You have the option of returning the requested information in writing separately (Jones v. DPP), e.g. the PACE statement. I should do it before the time is up.
bazzer25
Sent PACE statement off today just sit back with fingers crossed now I'll keep you informed as to any new develpopments or outcome. Thanks for the advice everyone I'll hopefully be helping the cause at the end of this if I have any funds left. Bazzer
bazzer25
Recieved a reply from Lancashire Constabulary today 1st July. Basically its 2 paragraphs the first says althouggh I did not use the statutory form the statement amounts to an admission and satisfies section 12 Road traffic Offenders Act 1988 and will be tendered as evidence if required. The second paragraph is were it gets heavy I'll print it here word for word so there is no confusion. It goes.


The paragraph includes references to caution under the PACE Act 1984 and Mawdsley versus CC of Cheshire2004. Your understanding of this matter is wrong you have either been misled or you have isunderstood the elements of the case. In this case Judge Owen for the Queens Bench Division stated that a signed form/statement amounted to a confession under section 82 of the PACE Acr1984 which fell outside the need for a caution. The issue of the admissibility of signed admissions was also recently confirmed by the case of Jones versus DPP 2004.
If you wish to avoid a court hearing, please complete and return the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty which will be sent to you under a seperate cover, once you have considered all the options available to you.

Well that was it, do I understand from that they are saying they will take my statement as an admission and seeing as I admitted it they do not need to caution me. Please can you advise me as to my next move when I get the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty. Is this all bully and bluff or will it involve a court hearing eventually. Thanks for any advise you can give. Bazzer
matt1133
QUOTE
Well that was it, do I understand from that they are saying they will take my statement as an admission and seeing as I admitted it they do not need to caution me. Please can you advise me as to my next move when I get the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty. Is this all bully and bluff or will it involve a court hearing eventually. Thanks for any advise you can give. Bazzer


Assuming you are still up for the fight the best action is to remain silent, there have been a few time outs when the PACE letter has been used.
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