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blueshoe
Hi there,
I'm attending a magistrate’s court tomorrow regarding the above. I jumped a traffic light (just as it turned red). I know the junction well, knew there was a camera and so I knew I had to stop. I wasn’t excessively speeding (speed limit on road is 40mph) but in order to bring the car to a controlled stop I overshot the stop line by 0.5 meters. I was aware that there was a car behind me too. Both wheels where over the line and the boot of the car was too.

First I received the letter to identify the driver, then I received the letter to prosecute (3 points and £60 fine) but I believed that I had reasonable grounds to appeal. I wrote a letter and received pictures of my offence.

The pictures I received show my car over the line but in both pictures they show that my brake lights were on and my speed passing through the stop line as 6mph. I wrote another letter indicating them of this but still received a court summons.

I'm after some feedback as to what I can expect in court and whether I have the sufficient grounds to appeal. Maybe I’m being naive but I didn't think an offence like this would go all the way to court? I'm sure if a police officer was present when the incident occurred I might have had a warning but not a court appearance?

Any advice would be appreciated and anything I should say when I am there
Regards to all
blueshoe

mrh3369
As both wheels were over the white line I think the offence is complete so you had better hope you have some understanding magistrates but I doubt it.
Mayhem007
I don't think you will have much of aleg to stand on. You are guilty of the offence.

However, you can mitigate the circumstance by showing that you did not proceed through the junction.

You can plead guilty tomorrow, unless you have some earth shattering explanation why you could not stop in time. Amber light would have given you the signal to slow down to a controlled stop before the light turned red.
jimster
If both (sets) of wheels and the boot were over the line then you will have overshot the stop line by more than 0.5 meters
blueshoe
QUOTE (jimster @ Thu, 5 May 2011 - 14:20) *
If both (sets) of wheels and the boot were over the line then you will have overshot the stop line by more than 0.5 meters



Sorry i should have been clearer. this was the distace from the back of my car (ie the bumper) to the stop line.

QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 5 May 2011 - 14:17) *
I don't think you will have much of aleg to stand on. You are guilty of the offence.

However, you can mitigate the circumstance by showing that you did not proceed through the junction.

You can plead guilty tomorrow, unless you have some earth shattering explanation why you could not stop in time. Amber light would have given you the signal to slow down to a controlled stop before the light turned red.


Many thanks for the replies all.

The only thing i can think of, was that there may have been a car following me quite closely...

So i think it's a agreed that I am guilty of the offence. any choice words that i can mention for damage limitation in terms of points and fine??
3phase278
QUOTE (blueshoe @ Thu, 5 May 2011 - 15:05) *
The only thing i can think of, was that there may have been a car following me quite closely...

So i think it's a agreed that I am guilty of the offence. any choice words that i can mention for damage limitation in terms of points and fine??


a possible close following car won't get you any sympathy from the bench - they will have heard it a hundred times before - I wouldn't even mention that unless you believe you had a defence of 'duress' - very hard to prove

As already said above, it won't do any harm to mention the fact you did actually come to a halt, yes offence complete, but at least you realised and stopped albeit after the line - just don't make it sound like you still believe you are not guilty if you know what i mean.

Also do you have a good driving history? ie. clean/low points on license, driving a longtime, and had no similar instances in the past?

Points will be fixed at 3 minimum, you may be able to get them to put fine back to original £60 mark by explaining you are now aware that you were guilty and would have pleaded so at COFP stage had you known the exact technicalities of the offence. Worth a try anyway - If you are suitably presented and remorseful, you may strike lucky. victim costs will be added too.

good luck
blueshoe
Appreciate the reponse 3phase, i have a clean license and have been driving for 10+ years. I had 3 points about 9 years ago but that was it.
Agreed that if i had known of the technicalities then i may have pleaded at the COFP stage. anyway, I will remain optamistic and that lady luck comes along for a ride tomorrow rolleyes.gif

jobo
??????????????

if i read it correct, then he has fully cleared the line in both picies, theyt therefore have no evidenc3 of an offence being commited
3phase278
QUOTE (jobo @ Thu, 5 May 2011 - 17:58) *
??????????????

if i read it correct, then he has fully cleared the line in both picies, theyt therefore have no evidenc3 of an offence being commited


QUOTE
The pictures I received show my car over the line but in both pictures they show that my brake lights were on and my speed passing through the stop line as 6mph


hi jobo - as above?

blueshoe - seeing as you are at mag's tomorrow, then the clean driving history you have mentioned should certainly benefit you if you can mention it to the bench in a suitable way

it's not like you are some nutter 'don't give a toss' serial offender etc (of which they probably see their fair share)- just don't overdo it on smugness or anything daft, you have been caught after all - that's the contrite acknowlegement they should be looking for.
ict_guy
I'm with jobo on this one -

If you can not see any part of your vehicle moving over the line from the pictures, then you have NOT committed an ofence (well, you may have done but the pictures will not provide proof).
peterguk
QUOTE (blueshoe @ Thu, 5 May 2011 - 15:05) *
Sorry i should have been clearer. this was the distace from the back of my car (ie the bumper) to the stop line.


Just to be clear...

Do BOTH pictures show ALL of your car past the stop line, or not?????
blueshoe
to clarify, there are 3 pictures.
  1. one showing my car number plate,
  2. one showing my car crossing the line with a red traffic light
  3. one showing my car completely over the line


Can anyone advise, what will happen at the magistrates? will i be asked how i plead to the offense again? can i change plea in court? i pleaded not guity on the paperwork.
i'm hoping to mention what 3phase said. i realise that an offense has been committed, and that i plead guilty, but special reasons not to endorse as

you did actually come to a halt, yes offence complete, but at least you realised and stopped albeit after the line?
Mayhem007
You will be asked by the usher your plea and they will advice the clerk to the court. You may then be dealt with quickly rather than having to sit around all day.

Just wear your best clothes, apologise. Give your mitigation under oath and explain that although you crossed the line you did stop beyond the line and did not proceed through the junction thus not increasing the risk of injury to other drivers.
blueshoe
Agreed, I think that's all I can do now. I will give it my best shot

jimster
QUOTE (blueshoe @ Fri, 6 May 2011 - 09:37) *
to clarify, there are 3 pictures.
  1. one showing my car number plate,
  2. one showing my car crossing the line with a red traffic light
  3. one showing my car completely over the line


Can anyone advise, what will happen at the magistrates? will i be asked how i plead to the offense again? can i change plea in court? i pleaded not guity on the paperwork.
i'm hoping to mention what 3phase said. i realise that an offense has been committed, and that i plead guilty, but special reasons not to endorse as

you did actually come to a halt, yes offence complete, but at least you realised and stopped albeit after the line?


Good luck, but I think your chances of non endorsement are slim
3phase278
QUOTE (jimster @ Fri, 6 May 2011 - 13:14) *
Good luck, but I think your chances of non endorsement are slim


agreed with Jimster - my comments were made to reduce fine back to COFP stage not to plead for no points, I'm not sure there's anyway special reasons not to endorse can come into play, as the offence was committed - it maybe worth a punt, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

anyway, academic as you are prob speaking to bench as we type. Blueshoe, let us know how you got on - hope it was a good result.

cheers
blueshoe
Been here just over an hour now. Still waiting to go in. The usher confused me by saying that she hasn't seen an officer for my case. Is she correct in saying this?
bama
blueshoe,

celebrating ? ?
drowning sorrows ? ?
Mayhem007
QUOTE (blueshoe @ Fri, 6 May 2011 - 14:59) *
Been here just over an hour now. Still waiting to go in. The usher confused me by saying that she hasn't seen an officer for my case. Is she correct in saying this?


You did tell them you were pleading guilty. Should be no need for an officer.

Is it all done and dusted.
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