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Sanman
I recently pleaded not guilty to my speeding ticket, in order to request the video evidence recorded by the LTI20/20 device, so that I could eximine it for accuracy as suggested on this site in various posts.

The CPS wrote me a letter stating there was no video evidence in existence, This unfortunately left me with no evidence to examine and no case for my defence, I requested that the case be thrown out due to lack of supporting evidence from the CPS, this was rejected and I was found guilty of travelling at 50mph in a 40mph zone.

I was fined £175 +£15 victim support + £300 court costs a total of £490, which to me seems excessive considering the original fine was £60

I have two questions, which members may be able to help with....

1) Is the LTI 20/20 ever configured without a video recording device, and is this legal?

2) Is it worth appealing against the fine +costs as they are so excessive compared to the original fine, approx 800% greater.

Thx
Rallyman72
1. Yes, and yes. The LTI 20-20 is a speedmeter, not a camera. If used by police rather than SCP then it is enough to support the opinion of a police officer. When used by an SCP they do record evidence since many use civilian operators although some do use police officers.

2. Your call although I would possibly say no. We really need more information about the circumstances of your case. Were you stopped by an officer at the roadside for example?

At 10mph over the lim it you could well have been in lione for a speed awareness course - again we don't know as you haven't told us whether you received an FPN and declined it or not.
Sanman
Thanks for responding so quickly, I will add a bit more detail....

Yes I was stopped by an officer at the side of the road, and yes an FPN was issued, no other options were given. After seeing this site I thought it was worth taking it further, as I did not believe I was speeding and wanted to see the evidence.
Rallyman72
For a roadside stop the evidence will be a statement from the Officer that he formed the opinion that you were travelling at a speed in excess of the limit and he then checked your speed using an LTI.

The roadside stops are the most difficult to defend. I suspect the advice here would have been to accept the FPN, not dispute it.
Sanman
Too late for FPN now, that seems to be the really unfair part, you have to plead not guilty and decline the FPN before you are allowed to inspect the evidence against you.

Although I wonder if there is any mileage in arguing the point that he could not have reasonable formed a reliable opinion on my speed, as it was dark, and he actually stated the fact that it was dark, and stated that he could not make out the manufacturer and model of my car till I pulled in. ??
The Rookie
QUOTE (Sanman @ Wed, 4 May 2011 - 13:06) *
Too late for FPN now, that seems to be the really unfair part, you have to plead not guilty and decline the FPN before you are allowed to inspect the evidence against you.

Although I wonder if there is any mileage in arguing the point that he could not have reasonable formed a reliable opinion on my speed, as it was dark, and he actually stated the fact that it was dark, and stated that he could not make out the manufacturer and model of my car till I pulled in. ??

You'll loose......

He doesn't need to see what the car is to form an opinion of excess speed having seen lots of other cars approach along the same road, very few people can tell a cars make and model from approaching headlights, but can easily tell if its going faster than 90% of the rest of thr traffic.

The acid question is, do you think you were driving at below the speed limit or not, I suspect not (as you haven't said that) and frankly you appear to be looking for a 'get out' and right now you don't have one.

Simon
peterguk
QUOTE (Sanman @ Wed, 4 May 2011 - 13:06) *
you have to plead not guilty ... before you are allowed to inspect the evidence against you.


That is the way justice works in all areas of law. Else everyone would say "let's see what you've got on me, then i'll decide what to plea."
baggins1234
QUOTE (Sanman @ Wed, 4 May 2011 - 08:31) *
Thanks for responding so quickly, I will add a bit more detail....

Yes I was stopped by an officer at the side of the road, and yes an FPN was issued, no other options were given. After seeing this site I thought it was worth taking it further, as I did not believe I was speeding and wanted to see the evidence.


If you were stopped at the roadside did the officer show you the reading on the 20/20 and explain his evidence i.e. formed the opinion you were speeding, measured your speed using the device, and then once a reading was obtained, he stopped you?

If this was done then, ulimately, that is ALL the evidence there is. There is, in this case nothing else to inspect on the face of it (assuming the device is within the callibration period and the officer is trained to use it)

Sorry, but if you were advised by someone to plead not guilty then that was very bad advice IMHO

The Rookie
Err, there is no need for the officer to show it to the accused at all, its recommended but not doing so is not a bar to prosecution.

Simon
baggins1234
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 May 2011 - 14:40) *
Err, there is no need for the officer to show it to the accused at all, its recommended but not doing so is not a bar to prosecution.

Simon


Err, i am fully aware of that thank you.

That is why i said that that was "all the evidence" as in there would be no more forthcoming.

Which is why I didnt say it was a must that the display should be shown the the OP
The Rookie
It was the 'If all this is done' bit that more than implied that was needed, not the 'all the evidence'!

Simon
2020Hindsight
You won't get anywhere with the argument of the fine being disproportionate either I'm afraid - the offer of a Fixed Penalty is meant to be a cheaper alternative to court for all involved. Unfortunately you turned it down and chose to go for the route with court costs
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