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Full Version: PCN Code 12R: Parking in a Residents Bay (Westminster)
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wms68
On Friday 25/03 I parked in a Westminister Council bay and received the PCN attached.

I checked the sign shown and misread that the Disabled space had restrictions at the time I parked (7pm) however the standard bay I parked in which was adjacent to the Disabled Bay was OK after 6.30pm on a Friday. The signed appears to cover both bays (in my opiniion)

I am proposing to use a similar appeal defence as that covered in the following link (two adjacent bays were subject to differing restrictions so I can quote paragraph 7.51 from the DfT Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3 and Annex E1 and E2 from the dfT Operational Guidance to Local Authorities)
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t50959.html

The sign for my bay was actually 30+ yards aways at the other end of the bay (I checked this after coming back and seeing the ticket).

The temporary suspension sign can be ignored as this was for the following day.

Any thoughts or comments would be most appreciated




SchoolRunMum
Sorry you have had no reply yet.

I find that sign confusing too, I cannot seem to understand what it's saying and which bays it relates to when. Where does it say permit holders only, or pay at machine or whatever, and where are the arrows which show which bay they are talking about? What did the sign say that was 30 yards away?

See what others say but this one must be worth appealing all the way, surely, as Westminster PCNs usually are!
wms68
Thankyou for your response.

The sign for permit holders only is at the other end of the bay I parked in, which is 30 yards down the road (to the left on the photos). As it was residents only, there was no pay machine.

I can get photos of the Resident permits sign, but from memory the window was 8.30am until 8:30pm so i was within that window.

From looking at the disabled sign again, I am still confused as to what it means - does it mean that I could have legally parked in the disable bay after 6.30pm?

If so that would be pretty annoying as it was empty when I arrived at 7pm but i interpreted it as stating the bay adjacent to it was OK to park in after 6.30pm rather than the disabled bay.

Hope that makes sense....
alloageorge
its 24 hour disabled from
how i read it
wms68
Based on another thread, I plan to send this letter tomorrow, so any feedback would be appreciated.

======================

Dear Sir/Madam,

I writing to submit a challenge to PCN Number: XYZ12345689 which was issued at 19:32 in Friday 25th March 2011.

I would like to challenge the PCN on account that the PCN was incorrectly issued due to the reasons outlined below;

Inadequate and misleading signage

Upon parking I checked the closest sign which lists the controlled hours as Monday - Friday (8.30am - 6.30pm).
I have enclosed pictures of the bay where my car was parked along with the sign detailing the restrictions.
Therefore, I reasonably believed that parking was permitted in this bay at the time the ticket was issued:- the sign features no arrow to indicate it applies only to the bay on the right hand side of the sign.
The sign stating the differing restrictions on the left hand side is some distance along the bay. The signage arrangement for these two adjacent bays is liable to cause confusion, being inadequate and misleading.

In support, I refer to paragraph 7.51 from the DfT Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3;

7.51 Where two different parking bays are side by side (e.g. a loading bay adjacent to a disabled badge holder bay), consideration should be given to mounting two signs side by side, preferably on a grey backing board, at the changeover point. Each sign should include an arrow pointing in the direction of the respective bay. This should minimise the risk of drivers parking in the wrong bay by mistake and incurring a penalty. Where the assembly would not be too tall, the signs could be mounted one above the other. The sign with the left-pointing arrow should be at the top.

Lack of conformity to Traffic Signs Regulations

The bay in which I parked does not conform to any diagram in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. The double termination line may only be used where individual bays are marked out, not in one long bay. As it is not a permitted variant of diagram 1028 or 1032 it fails to convey a restriction.

With regard to both these points, I make reference to Annex E1 and E2 from the dfT Operational Guidance to Local Authorities;

E1 All local authorities are responsible for the accuracy and condition of the traffic signs and road markings that identify parking restrictions in their area. The traffic signs and road markings must conform strictly to the relevant regulations (currently the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 – TSRGD – and subsequent amendments) or have special authorisation from DfT. They should also conform to the guidance set out in Chapters 3 and 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual.

E2 PCNs may not be valid if they are issued where traffic signs and road markings are incorrect or in poor condition. Representations demonstrating this should be accepted.

Should you elect to reject my appeal, I will have no hesistation in taking my appeal to the independant adjudicator. I look forward your response, with notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled.

Yours sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxx
hcandersen
IMO, you've left out/not elaborated upon your key argument which is that the only reasonable conclusion that a motorist could draw from the sign is that there is a restriction which applies all day to a disabled bay and permissive parking (8.30 - 6.30 Mon -Fri, max time 4 hours; free parking, no restrictions Sat; Sun; Mon-Fri: 6.30 pm to 8.30 am) in the adjacent bay. You were in that bay, no more than 3-4 feet from the sign.

You were parked at 19.32 hrs on Fri. 25th and therefore according to the sign no parking restrictions applied at that time.

The PCN refers to a Residents Parking and/or pay and display restriction neither of which is mentioned in the sign.

If the council fails to cancel the PCN then require it to provide me you with its interpretation of that sign. (don't leave this out - you must get the council to give you its view on the meaning of that sign)

IMO, forget about the sign up the road, it's irrelevant to where you were and I wouldn't bother about TSM/DfT guidance/TSRGD either - what the sign says is the key, not what it should or shouldn't say.


HCA

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