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Plump
Hey guys, this is my first time here just want to say before I start telling you my life story great forum and slot of very helpful users

So here goes
Sunday night around half 7ish I was on a daul carriageway when from a 50 to 40 and as I come over the hill I seen a van with it's back doors open slammed the brakes on but unsure of the actually speed could be over 80 or it could be less depending on when he cloaked me.

I'm currently waiting on a letter to say they caught me etc. I've had my license 4 years in July currently 0 points and this is my first driving offence.

I've done alot of reading the last few days and came across a few sites that say ask for photo Identification and calibration certificates etc as this may lead to the case being dropped. How true is this now?
Kickaha
Not true at all I am afraid. They are only required to supply details like that if you formally enter a not guilty plea.

You could ask for photos "to help identify the driver" (do not use the words proof or evidence) and they will probably oblige. If you get them and post them up (removing all identifying details first) we can have a look to see if they got you fairly or not.

It seems that the days of them making c*ck ups on things like calibration and checks are long gone, so I would not hold out too much hope.

Sorry that this is not what you want to hear.
Durzel
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 15 Mar 2011 - 11:08) *
I've done alot of reading the last few days and came across a few sites that say ask for photo Identification and calibration certificates etc as this may lead to the case being dropped. How true is this now?

It's mostly garbage really. Any photos they may or may not provide are not considered evidence anyway. Anything that would be used in evidence against you you are not entitled to see until you enter a plea.

Typically people are advised to ask for photos "to aid identification of the driver" because it may highlight inconsistencies in the manner in which the offence was recorded which could be used as part of a greater technical defence to the charge. The key point here is not to infer that you want to see photographic evidence - if you do it is likely they would simply refuse to provide them to you.

It is somewhat pointless speculating until you find out if you have been caught, and at what speed. The difference between being caught at 80 and 70, in the 40mph zone or still in the 50 will make a significant difference to the outcome.
redloner
If you are the Registered Keeper, you have upto 14 days to wait for a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP), longer if you aren't the registered keeper or you've recently moved or recently bought the vehicle.

On receipt, you can then ask for photos to help identify the driver. You aren't entitled to ask for evidence or proof, so such words should be avoided.

Fishing trips for calibration certificates and training records are red herrings and should be avoided at this time. Ask for them later if you can form a defence which is supported by these items.
Pete D
There is nothing you can do at the moment until you get a NIP. I assume it was your vehicle and the V5 is in your name and present address. If you do get a NIP then complete the NIP Wizard, all questions and opt to add the output to your thread. Pete D
Plump
Yes it was my car etc but what happens if they send me a photo and you can not make out the driver, also do I ask the photo once I get the nip and does the form still have to be back within the 28 days of recieving the NIP?

Thanks guys
Pete D
The photo which you may ask for after you have a NIP is not required to identify the driver. That is your legal responsibility as the RK of the vehicle. This does not stop the 28 day clock which starts when you receive the NIP. Pete D
Kickaha
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 15 Mar 2011 - 12:01) *
Yes it was my car etc but what happens if they send me a photo and you can not make out the driver, also do I ask the photo once I get the nip and does the form still have to be back within the 28 days of recieving the NIP?

Thanks guys

You need to ID the driver, not them. The photo is only taken to identify the car and for secondary speed checks.
Ask for the photo when you get the NIP, but yes, the form needs to be returned within 28 days irrespective of receiving the photos
Gan
What would you do if you didn't receive a photo ? You would either name yourself or expect £500 fine, 6 points and a lot of insurance problems.

If you receive a NIP, ask for pictures as soon as possible. Waiting for them doesn't stop the clock - a few OPs have made this mistake.

Pete D
This was a Van ping so no secondary checks. Pete D
Kickaha
QUOTE (Pete D @ Tue, 15 Mar 2011 - 12:20) *
This was a Van ping so no secondary checks. Pete D

I am suitably corrected wink.gif
Plump
So there would be no point asking for photo Id as I no who was driving?

These are my circumstances:
Currently in my 3rd year of a 4 year apprenticeship, I do alot of driving around the country to and from work etc
I have been driving 4 years in July currently with no points, no speeding offences, parking tickets etc
Could quite possibly loose my job if I get disqualified
Me and my girlfriend fount out a couple of weeks ago we are expecting a child, if I loose my job I'll be another bum on the dole with a child
Currently earn roughly 270 a week after tax etc but that's with no over time

What could be the outcome in court with these circumstances doing between 80-100?

Sorry about all the questions just trying to gather as much info as possible

Thanks guys

So there would be no point asking for photo Id as I no who was driving?

These are my circumstances:
Currently in my 3rd year of a 4 year apprenticeship, I do alot of driving around the country to and from work etc
I have been driving 4 years in July currently with no points, no speeding offences, parking tickets etc
Could quite possibly loose my job if I get disqualified
Me and my girlfriend fount out a couple of weeks ago we are expecting a child, if I loose my job I'll be another bum on the dole with a child
Currently earn roughly 270 a week after tax etc but that's with no over time

What could be the outcome in court with these circumstances doing between 80-100?

Sorry about all the questions just trying to gather as much info as possible

Thanks guys

So there would be no point asking for photo Id as I no who was driving?

These are my circumstances:
Currently in my 3rd year of a 4 year apprenticeship, I do alot of driving around the country to and from work etc
I have been driving 4 years in July currently with no points, no speeding offences, parking tickets etc
Could quite possibly loose my job if I get disqualified
Me and my girlfriend fount out a couple of weeks ago we are expecting a child, if I loose my job I'll be another bum on the dole with a child
Currently earn roughly 270 a week after tax etc but that's with no over time

What could be the outcome in court with these circumstances doing between 80-100?

Sorry about all the questions just trying to gather as much info as possible

Thanks guys
Durzel
This should provide some insight into possible outcomes:



As stated the likely outcome will depend on exactly what speed they alleged you were doing, and in what limit.

You should anticipate a ban for anything that approaches double the speed limit, going down to a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (3 points, £60 fine) for 75 in a 50, etc. If/when you receive a Notice of Intended Prosecution please update the thread with the speed and limit, etc and we should be able to assist you further.

Incidentally try not to worry too much at this point - there is little you can do at the moment anyway, and if/when you receive a NIP there is the option to plead "exceptional hardship" in court, highlighting your circumstances, to attempt to mitigate the usual punishment (e.g. argue from a straight ban down to points + fine, etc).

As for photos - apologies if I have confused you. The photos they may have of the offence do not have to identify a driver, the onus is on you to identify who the driver was and the photos (if provided) can sometimes aid you in this. People are generally advised to request them even when they know who the driver was because the photos themselves may show an inconsistency or flaw in how you were caught. If such a flaw exists this could be used in a technical defence (i.e. that you weren't doing the speed they allege you were doing).

There is no harm in asking for the photos but you need to be clear that asking for them does not stop the clock on your duty to respond to the NIP, nor do the photos have to identify who the driver was - that is entirely your responsibility.
Plump
Thanks for the help guys

Just one more thing to clear up if I go to court can they give
Me points and a ban? Also if i do get a ban because I've been driving over 2 years so I have to retake my test again or not allowed to drive for a certain amount of days then once the number of days are over I get my license back and cn drive straight away again?
jobo
no its points OR a ban not both

if its a ban, provieded its less than 56 days, you just start driving again when it expires,, if over 56 days you need to reapply for your DL, you only need to resit your test if ordered to do so by the court
Plump
What kind of envelope will it come in? Does it clearly state police or any thing along those lines
jobo
a brown envolope with a return address on the back
Plump
Nothing stating police, speeding ticket etc?
peterguk
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 15 Mar 2011 - 18:24) *
Nothing stating police, speeding ticket etc?


Is your Mum watching your post? unsure.gif
Plump
Nope my dad I want to see it before he moans
jobo
it say please return to the central ticketing unit a po box ?????, mine actualy said police on it, others may not
may i ask why, hope your not doing anything daft like sending it back as not delivered, that might well end up with you commiting perjury further down the line
Plump
nope nothing stupid just want to tell my dad myself once i no speed etc rather than him seeing it
Plump
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2011
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - a52 clifton boulevard (o/s QMC) nottingham
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I finished playing football, had a look at my phone and seen texts that my girlfriend who is carrying my baby had fainted. I panicked and was in a rush to get to her

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:50:10 +0000

i got clocked doing 74 in a 40
peterguk
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 12:51) *
i got clocked doing 74 in a 40



Magistrates' Court Penalty Guidelines
Eligible for COFP instead?No: Magistrates' court onlyPoints:6Normal fine range:£263 - £438Disqualification possible?Consider 7-56 daysMaximum fine:£1000

At nearly twice the limit, IMHO a short term bab is highly likely, so all you can do is name yourself as the driver and await a summons.
Plump
How long do they normally take to come through?
nemo
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 13:53) *
How long do they normally take to come through?


Could be up to 6 months (plus a couple of weeks) from the date of the alleged offence.
Plump
So when I send this nip off i might not hear anything for upto 6 months ?
Won't they take into account I've been driving nearly 4 years with no points etc, I need my license for my job and I've got a Child in the way that I won't to support rather than loose my job an be on the dole

Any thing to look out for on the nip ?
The Rookie
Correct, many areas you can expect to wait until just over 6 months from the date of the alleged offence until you get a summons.

They will take previous driving history into account, but 4 years is nothing really (its now 21 years since I last got 'done' for anything), they will also take your circumstances into account, converesely they may consider if those things (and your licence) were important to you, you wouldn't have been driving at that speed in that limit in the first place........

NIP, yes, 14 days and location is about it.

Simon
nemo
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 14:07) *
So when I send this nip off i might not hear anything for upto 6 months ?

Pretty much.

They must apply for a [court] summons within 6 calendar months of the date of the alleged offence. Issue and service of the summons can be a couple of weeks later.

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 14:07) *
Won't they take into account I've been driving nearly 4 years with no points etc,

You could use that fact to attempt to mitigate the offence, but it is unlikely that the magistrates will vary too much from their sentencing guidelines.

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 14:07) *
Any thing to look out for on the nip ?

Not really - the NIP Wizard you completed has already provided most of the items which could have been important.
Plump
no point asking for photographic id? just sign and send the letter back.

whats the shortest time can i recieve a court date in and how long notice do they give you? i'm going on holiday 18th of july for a week what happens if i get my court date for when im ment to be on holiday can i rearrange it or is it final?

What are the procedures for court, i no looking smart maybe wear a suit but will i have to talk or walk in and get the punishment.

Sorry about all the questions first time this has happened
nemo
QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 16:17) *
no point asking for photographic id?

Nothing stopping you from writing and asking for 'copies of any photographs which might assist with identification of the driver'.

Keep the letter short, to the point and best not to start asking for 'evidence' or proof.

Whilst they are under no obligation to send you anything at this stage, most SCPs seem happy enough to send out a picture or two if they feel that the request is genuine.

And note that a request for photos will not automatically extend, suspend or reset the 28 day response window of the s.172 response. As such, you must ensure that your nomination of the driver is received by the SCP within 28 days from when the notice was delivered, irrespective whether any photos have arrived or not.

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 16:17) *
whats the shortest time can i recieve a court date in and how long notice do they give you?

The absolute quickest they would be able to get a summons to you would be a week or so after they had received confirmation of the identity of the driver. Chances are, the trial would be set for another month or so beyond that.

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 16:17) *
i'm going on holiday 18th of july for a week what happens if i get my court date for when im ment to be on holiday can i rearrange it or is it final?

The court would be quite happy to reschedule to a mutually convenient date.

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 16:17) *
What are the procedures for court, i no looking smart maybe wear a suit but will i have to talk or walk in and get the punishment.

Assuming you entered a guilty plea, you would only be required to attend if the court was considering imposing a ban.

If you weren't required to attend for sentencing, there would be nothing to stop you from attending anyway and offering mitigation in person.

If you remain concerned about attending court unprepared, why not take a couple of hours from work and sit in on a few cases at your local Magistrates' Court ? If you phone the court beforehand, they may be able to advise the best day to attend to observe motoring cases.
Plump
Would u say receiving the court date in say a few weeks is doubtful, could do with some thing to save some cash up.

So if I plea guilty I may not even attend court? (won't this look bad on my part if I don't turn up?) how do I no what the outcome was
Glacier2
They will write to you with the penalty.

Pleading guilty by post is very common. If they want you there they will write to you demanding your presence on a new date.
Plump
But will I no when the court date is if I don't need to attend? Will they automatically do the hearing if i don't need to be there then write to me with the verdict or will they ask me to go to court first ?

Sorry about all the questions
nemo
Assuming a plea of guilty is entered...

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 18:51) *
But will I no when the court date is if I don't need to attend?

Yes - they will write and advise the scheduled date for the hearing and whether you are required to attend for sentencing.

QUOTE (Plump @ Tue, 22 Mar 2011 - 18:51) *
Will they automatically do the hearing if i don't need to be there then write to me with the verdict or will they ask me to go to court first ?

The court will request your attendance if they are considering ordering a ban.

If no ban is being considered, the magistrates can sentence in your absence and you would be advised of the penalties by post.
AFCNEAL
When (if) you get the summons it wil ltell you when the case is being heard and at that point, unless they demnd you attendance (a ban being considered) there will be the option to plead guilty by post.

As that sort of speed it could go either way (ban vs points) but any band isn't likely to cost you your job as it would be a for a shortish period and you could plan to cover with holiday or office based maybe.
Plump
I maybe could stick a ban for a few weeks it's just if I have to retake my test them I'm stuffed, shall I just send the nip back without asking for a photo and just wait for a summons
Durzel
Did your girlfriend attend hospital or call a doctor? I'm no expert but I would presume a pregnant woman who faints would either want to, or be asked to, attend hosptal or speak to a doctor for a checkup.

If she had attended hospital/seen a doctor then I would imagine that would make for strong mitigation, particularly in light of the speed involved (i.e. someone with a clean licence doing 74 in a 40 is out of character).

That's just speculation on my part though, obviously don't say anything that isn't true.
Plump
She didn't on that particularly that night because she thought it was down to not eating enough but it did happen the day after while she was at work, the doctor and nurse did have a look over her then (she works in a hospital) but I'm not sure what was recorded
Plump
ia it worth writing a letter about why i was doing that speed and stating my circumstances? also getting a letter off my boss which states ill loose my job if i get banned.

What would be better for insurance purposes a ban or 6 points? and whats the conviction code for 6 points
BaggieBoy
The normal speeding conviction code is SP30, the number of points doesn't change this.
Plump
quick update guys, today sent off a letter asking for photographic identification to help determine the driver. How long do they usually take to come through?

Also do i get 28 days from the date the offence was commited or from when i recieve the nip to send it back?
peterguk
QUOTE (Plump @ Sun, 27 Mar 2011 - 21:28) *
Also do i get 28 days from the date the offence was commited or from when i recieve the nip to send it back?


28 days starts from date of receipt of the notice.
Plump
the letter was dated 21 march and i recieved it on the 22 march so it starts on the 22nd march. Just out of curiousity do they use photo id in court etc
peterguk
QUOTE (Plump @ Sun, 27 Mar 2011 - 21:32) *
Just out of curiousity do they use photo id in court etc


Mess around regarding identification of the driver and they are sure to use any photos they have.

Remember it is for YOU to identify the driver, not them. Do not be tempted to play silly games, or you will come of worse.
Plump
not looking to mess around but just curious because you hear of so many people taking points for people, Say if some one say took points for their mates how do the police know they aint lieing do they actually look at the photo or just do the person that said they was driving

Just saying again im not implying this is what im doing or any thing just think no wonder so many people do it if its that easy
peterguk
QUOTE (Plump @ Sun, 27 Mar 2011 - 21:40) *
not looking to mess around but just curious because you hear of so many people taking points for people, Say if some one say took points for their mates how do the police know they aint lieing do they actually look at the photo or just do the person that said they was driving

Just saying again im not implying this is what im doing or any thing just think no wonder so many people do it if its that easy


I've heard lots of macho BS in the pub. The only cases i know are true are the ones reporting jailtime in the newspapers.
Plump
how long does it usually take for a reply from them with a photo
peterguk
QUOTE (Plump @ Sun, 27 Mar 2011 - 21:46) *
how long does it usually take for a reply from them with a photo


Any time up to a few weeks, if they decide to send them (which they usually do). Remember the 28 days does not stop if they don't arrive in time.
Plump
i was hoping for a few days, wanted to see it before i sent any thing back. got until the 19th to send it back if im correct? also sent it to the place on the letter the nip needs to be sent back to is this correct?
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