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Lesley15
I was driving off a dual carriageway at 55mph (A45 in Northampton) onto the dual slip road (uphill) at approx 40 mph. I saw the light change to amber and had to quickly make a judgement as to whether I thought I could stop safely before the line.

I thought I couldn't and didnt brake hard. As I went onto the roundabout I saw the traffic light across the roaundabout turn from amber/red for a second to red. (I am sure the one at the white line was not in my view)

I am 100% sure I was over the white line onto the roundabout when it happened. But flash flash went the cameras and a letter arrived 5 days later.

I requested the photos but it was dark and I cant see how they show I was not over when the red came on.
The letter says (Time into red .9secs) and says I was doing 23mph. I thought I was going faster.

What does the 0.9 sec mean and do you think its worth going to court to tell my version?

Thanks

lesley
srg
The usual advice would be:
Do the NIP Wizard and post the results to the thread
Remove any identifiable information from the pictures and post them to this thread

Then people will be able to help better
nemo
The offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.

'0.9s into red' means that the camera was triggered 0.9s after the lights had changed to red.

They normally send two photographs, to demonstrate that the vehicle did indeed move forward relative to the stop-line against the red. Do your photos show this ?
Lesley15
HI
Thanks for replying

There are 3 photos, , the 1st shows the white line and me 5m or so past it, it has the date and time and then in the next line
2Y3o R 009
052 6004

the 2nd shows me almost out of the picture and says
2Y3o R 019
052 V=23

the 3rd one is quite close of my boot and number plate and has nothing typed on

Lesley
southpaw82
So, at no time did any part of your vehicle proceed across the stop line while the light was red?
Lesley15
I honestly believe half my car was over the line when the light changed. So yes but I did not see the light on the white line show red as I was past it.
nemo
QUOTE (Lesley15 @ Sat, 12 Mar 2011 - 18:51) *
I honestly believe half my car was over the line when the light changed.

Even if it is only the final 5% of a vehicle which proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing, the offence is nonetheless complete.

Are you able to scan, depersonalise and post the pictures into this thread ?

How to post pictures.
The Rookie
The third pic will be a zoom.

However they need a pic of you crossing the white line (not 2 of you across it) to fully prove the offence, gettng Magistrates to follow this though.......

Simon
BaggieBoy
However they they need two pictures to prove the vehicle was moving, a single picture wouldn't do that.
Logician
Are there any other vehicles in the pictures? I just wonder if there was someone else following you closely who triggered the camera, and they have picked the wrong vehicle. Whatever, if they have no picture of you crossing the line, they should not be able to get a conviction. It might be worth writing back thanking them for the pictures and pointing out that they not show you committing the offence, and the camera may have been triggered by another vehicle (because they may argue that the fact that the camera was activated proves the offence)
Lesley15
I will scan the pictures at work tomorrow and post them.

Interesting the information saying it should show me crossing the line. There was a car behind me but dont think it went over the line after me
Thanks
Lesley15
Here is the page with photos

Thanks to anyone who can help
nemo
Lesley - can you post a GoogleMaps link to this junction on the A45 ?
Logician
I wonder if there is some confusion about the stop line, there appears to be a second line you might be crossing in the main photo, visible only on the left hand side of the picture. It is moe clearly seen on the second picture, where you seem to have just gone past it. If you can identify the junction, or post a link as Nemo asks, indicating exactly where you were on the junction, perhaps we can see more clearly quite what these lines are.
Kickaha
Logician is right, the stop line is indeed under the car in the first image.

It is the roundabout at Nene Valley Way/Mere Way/London Road near Wootton. Google map link. Look at the top right hand corner, where the white car is.
Transit man
QUOTE (Kickaha @ Mon, 14 Mar 2011 - 12:43) *
It is the roundabout at Nene Valley Way/Mere Way/London Road near Wootton. Google map link. Look at the top right hand corner, where the white car is.

Assuming location is correct & it appears so, then it certainly appears the "offending" car is straddling the line in the 1st pic, making the offence complete mad.gif
nemo
QUOTE (Kickaha @ Mon, 14 Mar 2011 - 12:43) *
..the stop line is indeed under the car in the first image.

As suspected, unfortunately.
Logician
The more obvious white line looks as though it is somehow imposed on the photograph rather than being a feature on the road, looking at the way it continues up the verge.

Lesley, I think you have been misled by that, presumably some feature of the camera or processing, and actually the photo shows you crossing the stop line, sorry.
Kickaha
IF I have the location correct, the answer to
QUOTE
......... and do you think its worth going to court to tell my version?

is no, it will only land you with a larger fine + costs etc.
Lesley15
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...mp;t=h&z=20

The map someone else attached isnt the correct junction that I was at.

Hopefully the link above will work. I was in the right hand lane to turn right, in the picture there is a white car approaching the line and already a white and a silver car waiting in the centre lane

Thank you

Lesley

Lesley15

HI That isnt the correct junction, thanks for trying to help but it is the one coming up the hill from the dual carriageway, I got on at A428 coming from Bedford direction, near Holiday Inn

Map is
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

if you can help?

Also I had a call from police today apologising for spelling my name incorrectly on the Conditional offer of fixed penalty and saying she was disappointed how my letter had been dealt with and was sending me a proper reply and a replacement (unfortunately :-( ) conditional offer....shame I thought she was going to say they had cocked up and was going to let me off!

Lesley



QUOTE (Kickaha @ Mon, 14 Mar 2011 - 12:43) *
Logician is right, the stop line is indeed under the car in the first image.

It is the roundabout at Nene Valley Way/Mere Way/London Road near Wootton. Google map link. Look at the top right hand corner, where the white car is.



Lesley15
QUOTE (Kickaha @ Mon, 14 Mar 2011 - 12:43) *
Logician is right, the stop line is indeed under the car in the first image.

It is the roundabout at Nene Valley Way/Mere Way/London Road near Wootton. Google map link. Look at the top right hand corner, where the white car is.



I can see that now after looking at photos and the junction :-(

but I did say I thought I was half over line WHEN the lights changed........

Logician
Yes, the Streetview shot of that junction is here. The stop line is on a thick part of the hatching on the right and in line with the traffic light pole, and that corresponds to the faint line in the first picture, shown more clearly in the second.

I am afraid that you are right Lesley, you were half over the line when the lights changed, and the law is that the offence is committed when any part of the vehicle crosses the line when the light is red, so the rear part of your car did cross the line. I am sorry that we have not managed to build a defence for you, but at least you know that in accepting the FPN you are doing so because it is genuinely a "fair cop", not just because it is too difficult to defend.
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