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oswald
A couple of charming rozzers have popped around to see me,

I have been given in person a NIP, this does not have my name or address on it, describes the road no. but the other information of the loaction is wrong.

on the form we have:-

1.) We have dangerously, carelessly or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road

2.) And did not comply with the direction of a police constable/ traffic warden on traffic duty

3.) At a speed exceeding the speed limit

Now they have made verbally an appointment for me to pop & have an interview under cation

I have already spoken with a solitor, however would like the opinions of members on here
oswald
I read a reply in this topic & it disapered !

my reply to the missing post, advice given was:-

attend the interview,& seems uninterested in the apparent error in the polices documents
Grant_W
Attend and say what?

Is he going to come and advise?
peterguk
Does the NIP include a S.172 request?
Grant_W
QUOTE (oswald @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 18:23) *
1.) We have dangerously, carelessly or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road

Are we talking the Royal we or are more than one of your vehicles involved?
oswald
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 18:58) *
Does the NIP include a S.172 request?


yes, I was named as driver by employer, again this form is not addressed to me ?

QUOTE (Grant_W @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 18:50) *
Attend and say what?

Is he going to come and advise?


Yes I intend to attend with a solitor,

I understand they will speak with him before hand, he will then inform of me of what their problem is & be present during the interview
jobo
can you start at the beging, (if you have done something dodgy, dont go admitting to it on here )

your employer recieved a nip a) in the post or b) a visit from the rozzers c) with a written nip d with out a written nip

how long after the incedent was this ?

they named you and you recieved a visit and they gave you a writen nip as above ?

did they ask you to verbally ID the driver at the time, did you do so ?
is there a form for this purpose

did they arrange this interview at the time of the visit

in what way is the info wrong ?
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 21:01) *
can you start at the beging, (if you have done something dodgy, dont go admitting to it on here )

your employer recieved a nip a) in the post or b) a visit from the rozzers c) with a written nip d with out a written nip
how long after the incedent was this ? (couple of days)

they named you and you recieved a visit and they gave you a writen nip as above ? (yes hand written w/o my details on it)

did they ask you to verbally ID the driver at the time, did you do so ?
is there a form for this purpose

did they arrange this interview at the time of the visit (Yes)

in what way is the info wrong ? (alleged offences name road & town incorrect, however I assume the slip rule allows then to amend? )



jobo
no, no slip rule on nips

youve still not told me, if you ided yourself as driver at that time and place

aS I RERAD IT, they didnt give a writen nip to the owner/rk of the car, is that correct ?
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 21:27) *
no, no slip rule on nips

youve still not told me, if you ided yourself as driver at that time and place

aS I RERAD IT, they didnt give a writen nip to the owner/rk of the car, is that correct ?


I have been named by employer as being driver I assume they have done this in writting

I have not completed any documents, however verbaly I've probally have admitted to it
jobo
that first point is very important, not that they named you in writting,,,, BUT if they were given a written NIP or not

have you said yes it was me there,,,, at,,,,,, on,,,,,, or not
peterguk
QUOTE (oswald @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 21:34) *
I have been named by employer as being driver I assume they have done this in writting


Your employer has named you who they believe was the driver.

But have YOU admitted either verbally, or by way of S.172 form, that YOU were the driver?
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 21:38) *
that first point is very important, not that they named you in writting,,,, BUT if they were given a written NIP or not

have you said yes it was me there,,,, at,,,,,, on,,,,,, or not



yes (I think) to being there
jobo
they will have asked you directly, you either said yes or no,,, or nothing much

you need to find out from your employer, if they were given written notice or not, coz if they werent there a goode chance the whole thing will fall apart
oswald
nothing much TBH,

personnaly I'am of the opinion that is prejury to fill out the NIP when I know the details are incorrect, I won't sign the one I have & iare intening to be inveiwed afer 14days of the alleged offence,
Logician
I think you are getting somewhat confused. The NIP is a notice of an intention to prosecute the driver of a vehicle who allegedly did some thing at some place and time. With it is a request to you to give what information you can about who was driving the vehicle at that place and time, that request seems from what you say to have come to you since your employer has named you. Your obligation is to provide what information you can about who was driving at that place and time. If that was you, you must say that. If it was someone else you must name them if you know them. If you know that the vehicle was not at that location at that time you must say that. If you believe they are asking about the wrong place or time you have no obligation to tell them what you think they ought to be asking about.
jobo
jeez mate

you been aKED UPMTEEN TIMES IF YOU HAVE A FORM TO COMPLETE

now it seems as if you do,,, can you just gives us basic facts PLEASE
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 22:42) *
jeez mate

you been aKED UPMTEEN TIMES IF YOU HAVE A FORM TO COMPLETE

now it seems as if you do,,, can you just gives us basic facts PLEASE


1st post, I have a hand written NIP delivered by hand
jobo
sigh

A nip is a form given to you

a 172 is a form you return,, your nip may or may not contain a 172 form with in it, which is why ive asked if you have a form to id your self, you still havent answered this clearly

we dont know what youve got in front of you,,,we can only give advice on what you tell us, if you wont asnwer questions, you wont get any thing usefull, in return

as it is, if you have a form you have 28 days to reply, they cant interview before that point,, or rather they shouldnt
Kickaha
I think that the OP is not disputing that there was an incident, but is looking for a way out via a technicality
QUOTE
I have been given in person a NIP, this does not have my name or address on it, describes the road no. but the other information of the location is wrong.

The OP needs to clarify the exact sequence of events (not of the incident but of the subsequent police/OP/employer actions) before anyone can offer a useful opinion.
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 22:51) *
as it is, if you have a form you have 28 days to reply, they cant interview before that point,, or rather they shouldnt


Click to view attachment

QUOTE (Kickaha @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 23:05) *
I think that the OP is not disputing that there was an incident, but is looking for a way out via a technicality


yep
Kickaha
Well read post 14 by Jobo, and check if your employer got a WRITTEN notice or not. If they did not get a written notice get back here and people can advise you.
jobo
the police are doing there best to give you a defence

il quickly run through the process for you

they MUST serve a WRITTEN NIP on the RK of the car with in 14 days,,, that might be your employer, it might be a lease company,,, if they dont,,, then they cant prosicute down the line for either dangerous/careless or the speeding,, not sure off the top of my head about the failure to stop ?? UNLESS there has been an accident then the requirement doesnt apply

so if they have just rang up the lease company got your employers N&A and then got yours, they have no chance in court to a good defence


Once they get to you, they have two options, they either verbally 172 you,, tell us who the driver is or else OR they give you a written notice, if its verbal you must answer there and then, if its written you have 28 days,,, it looks like they are trying to give you a written verbal nip demanding an ( All most) imediate answer,,, id go as far as to say they are pushing that to the point of illegality

if you were verballed, then you either answered to their satisfaction there and then or you committed an offence there and then

if you wernt veballed you have 28 days in law, no matter what that form says, id suggest the fact they gave you the form means you wernt verballed, but that up for debate ?

haVE THEY TOLD YOU WHAT FORTHWITH MEANS IN DAYS ?

AND THATS BEFORE WE consider if the inaccurate location has confused you? prevented you from replying conclusivly
oswald
I've currently have clean licance but have seen a number of written speeding ticket over the yrs, the working is clearyi defined,

with my paperwork its as clear as mud

QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 23:28) *
if you wernt veballed you have 28 days in law, no matter what that form says

haVE THEY TOLD YOU WHAT FORTHWITH MEANS IN DAYS ?



there is nothing to say when I have to reply by, also on the rear of the bit I posted eariler is this

Click to view attachment

so have I been served with the document or not ?
jobo
that proberly refers to the nip, rather than the 172, but as they say they have seved a written notice, id take it that what you have, and hold them to it

youve clearly ****** them off, which is why they are chasing round after you, but they are very close to shooting themselves in the foot with their haist

you need to find out, is it a lease car
did they serve a written notice on them and or your employer, this will give you a good understanding of whats happening

personally, id sit on that till the 28 days are up, and see what they do about it, but hang on in case anyelse disagrees

your under no legal obligation to attend for interview, they may threaten to arrest you if you dont, but i doubt they will, but can guareentee they wont

if you do go you have a right to a legaly aided( FREE ) SOLICITOR, but youl need to arrange this before hand yourself

BUT READING BETWEEN THE LINES ID KEEP AWAY FROM THEM UNLESS THEY drag you there, as you can only make it worse, and cant make it better


run me through the inaccurate location again
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 3 Dec 2010 - 23:51) *
you need to find out, is it a lease car
did they serve a written notice on them and or your employer, this will give you a good understanding of whats happening

personally, id sit on that till the 28 days are up, and see what they do about it, but hang on in case anyelse disagrees

your under no legal obligation to attend for interview, they may threaten to arrest you if you dont, but i doubt they will, but can guareentee they wont

if you do go you have a right to a legaly aided( FREE ) SOLICITOR, but youl need to arrange this before hand yourself

BUT READING BETWEEN THE LINES ID KEEP AWAY FROM THEM UNLESS THEY drag you there, as you can only make it worse,


the vehicle is owned by the company, they popped around & got me named, same day knocked on my door

I think I have both NIP & 172, I'm of the opinion that there trying to fit me up eg:- attemping to make appoinments at 22:00 hrs to interview ect

I'm of the opinion the paper work is too sloppy to be valid
peterguk
QUOTE (oswald @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 00:16) *
I'm of the opinion the paper work is too sloppy to be valid


Opinions are worth jack sh1t. What matters is the law which is why posters are being very particular about their questioning.
jobo
i think you may be right,,,, BUT you need to play very carefully and allow them to make mistakes

if you just dont sending it back( as your suggesting you might not) would make it difficult to prosicute you for the offences, unless they dig out a significant statment you made durring their visit, which there is every chance they will ( its a fair cop guv),,,, but, but, that decision also has consequences , as its an illegal act in its own right and has a penalty, including a possible short ban

if you play this right you can walk away with nothing with a bit of luckand a fair wind

so find out what youve been asked, as if they havent served written notice on your employer, you could be off the hook on at least two of offences and you dont want to give them another one to do you for instead

whats inaccurate about the location ? ( 3 rd time)
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 00:24) *
whats inaccurate about the location ? ( 3 rd time)


for example say the road was the D1234 manchester rd oldham, but the tickets states D1234 oldham rd city of manchester & an OS map this mistake is atleast 500 meters ?
jobo
is the d1234 bit accurate, ?or is the manchester road bit accurate
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 00:52) *
is the d1234 bit accurate, ?or is the manchester road bit accurate


the road no. is correct, the town & road name are incorrect
jobo
and does the d1234 run in to the other town at all
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 00:58) *
and does the d1234 run in to the other town at all


yeah its 40 or so miles long,
jobo
well in that case, you have a good option of reply accuratly that your car was not at that location and was not in oldham/ manchester that evening / hour ?

this will force them to reissue or run with a wrong location, with no admision of being at the correct location, it more to piss them about than a real issue, but it all adds up, but you must not do anything significant untill the offence is 14 days old, incase they revisit the nip to the employer issue and we yet dont know if this is an issue or not
Atilla
Just wondering if there is any sort of outcome so far to this?
Kickaha
QUOTE (Atilla @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 23:02) *
Just wondering if there is any sort of outcome so far to this?


Give it a chance mate. Topic only started yesterday.
oswald
I'll keep you updated on events & post the outcome,

my spider sense are tingling with "stitch up"
Atilla
QUOTE (oswald @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 22:31) *
I'll keep you updated on events & post the outcome,

my spider sense are tingling with "stitch up"


Certainly seems that way.
Grant_W
QUOTE (Atilla @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 22:43) *
Certainly seems that way.


What do you base that on, do you know something we don't?
oswald
they have appear to have a determination to push this forward, no real idea why ?

my other deals with police are crime no. or waiting more than 48hrs for a triple 9

acab springs to mind

jobo
QUOTE (oswald @ Sat, 4 Dec 2010 - 23:10) *
they have appear to have a determination to push this forward, no real idea why ?


possibly something to do with the aligation of dangerous driving and the failure to stop, maybe ?
oswald
still awaiting a letter whether or not I going to court (64 in 40 + FTS + Danagerous Driving)

Now I have this dog eared paper license

Click to view attachment

will the court add points on this or refuse it?
Logician
That is least of your problems, isn't it? If you are found guilty of dangerous driving you are looking at a 12 months ban and for anything over 56 days you lose your licence and have to apply for a new one, anyway.

Do you want to tell us about your case, or is there an earlier thread?
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 23 Jan 2011 - 19:56) *
Do you want to tell us about your case, or is there an earlier thread?


This one I suspect. Unless the OP has a couple DD cases on the go!
nemo
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sun, 23 Jan 2011 - 20:04) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 23 Jan 2011 - 19:56) *
Do you want to tell us about your case, or is there an earlier thread?


This one I suspect. Unless the OP has a couple DD cases on the go!

Now merged..
oswald
Click to view attachment
jobo
QUOTE (oswald @ Mon, 24 Jan 2011 - 20:12) *


the op has been pming me, so im a bit further ahead but not much

Op, when we last spoke you hadnt replied to the notice, have you now done so ?

one strain of advice was to denie you were at the ( wrong ) location as IDed on the 172, did you do this or not

im not sure if the 172 you put up, is a copy of what was given to you, or to your employer, which is it

if yours is it the same as the employers one ?


as it stands is argue that it isnt a lawfull written 172 and not replying could have been defendended in court

its certainly not a lawfull NIP, failing as it does to notify of the possibility of prosicution

please up date us on exactly what has happened in the last 6 weeks

NB as far as i can tell the RTA 1960 was replaced by the RTA 1972, so god knows how old that form is ?
oswald
this is the form given to me, I have not completed it.

I have attended an interview with a solicitor present, these all important forms which where hand delevried (twice) by 2 officers in a traffic car. Are now not required ?

jobo
QUOTE (oswald @ Mon, 24 Jan 2011 - 22:12) *
this is the form given to me, I have not completed it.

I have attended an interview with a solicitor present, these all important forms which where hand delevried (twice) by 2 officers in a traffic car. Are now not required ?


we dont charge by the word

why ? are they not now required
oswald
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 24 Jan 2011 - 22:24) *
why ? are they not now required


No idea, i asked the copper & was told they did not want it. The solicitor confirmed this.

I have a given an interview after which I was told I will get a letter from the CPS whether or not they want to go to court.
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