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Poppet23
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2010
Date of the NIP: - 18 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 23 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A358 Henlade, Somerset
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - It is my mother's car - I am insured for it
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was coming from Taunton towards a roundabout; I took the second turning off the roundabout onto the A358. I carried on that road, which is a single line which turns into a dual lanes and then back to a single lane. Unknown to me this stretch of road is all 30 mph; I was caught speeding at 51mph just as I had left the roundabount before it reached the dual lanes by a speed enforcement camera operator. I was starting to brake but obviously not quickly enough; it was 7.10pm, light traffic, good visiblity and good dry road surface. I have received the summons & form to fill out for the magistrates court. I am 5 months away from completing my 2 year new driver/probationary period - are there any options I consider to advoid incuring the six points and having my license revoked?

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:22:51 +0000
jobo
when you say unknow to you,, was there any signs pointing this out
Poppet23
Yes there were; hidden by a bigger sign post - I was just unfamiliar with the area
Top Cat
The courts just endorse your licence with points , they have no direct power to prevent a revocation , this is automatically done by the DVLA.
Logician
You are not expected to know the area, the signs should be there to give you sufficient notice to comply with the limit. Can you go back and take some pictures to show how the sign was hidden?
Then when you go to court you can show the magistrates how you were misled. That will probably not be sufficient to enable you to plead not guilty, but post them up here for us to have a look. However, it might be enough to persuade the magistrates to give you less than 6 points when you explain how important it is for you.

Presumably the first notice went to your mother within 14 daya of the offence, then she named you as the driver?
Poppet23
Yep my mum named me as driver which was correct. Lots of people have been done in the same spot; have researched this on the net so therefore I will not get away with saying the signage was not clear - it just wasn't clear to me. I have been reading a lot, today, about licenses being revoked automatically at six points and wondered if I go to court and plead my case i.e. be really apologetic and explain that not having a license will limit me working in Somerset during my breaks from University whether I could get disqualified instead - what are your thoughts?
jobo
you are at least in the band for getting a short ban, so yes worth a try
Poppet23
ok thanks - I had the option of pleading guilty by post or attending & I had read on this forumn that attending would be good - so was going to go along and really grovel. It disqualification would be the better option for me, as I can retain my license and then just have the deal with the increased insurance cost to stay on my mum's car - should I be thinking of anything else......
jobo
your options are two talk them into giving you only 5 points or a short ban, either are possible if you present your case well


can you demostaight the obscured signs
Pete D
There are 30 signs with a camera symbol under on both sides of the road. ( Illuminated ) There is also 30 Markings on the road. Prior to this there are yellow diagonals on the road. Add to this the street lamp spacing then there is no doubt this is a 30 Limit. All this is before the BlackBrook Tavern on your LHS. The problem is if the court give you 6 points for this then DVLA will without question revoke your licence. You not being able to work is not the point as you are being punished, if you were supporting the family , Grandma to the hospital each week etc, etc, that may be different, but that is not the case. Pete D
3phase278
maybe attend and ask for 5 points then drive like a nun for 3 years

I'd be of the view that less than 6 points (allowing you to be non-revoked) would be better for long term insurance than a ban - it's a gamble though

you have the fact you are almost out of probation period with 0 points so far, and an error on your part (in a well known 'trap' which really should be 40 now they have widened road etc untill you get into the actual village) has resulted in your being 'caught' - don't say that though about the road, they will know it well enough - do present the no points so far bit

mitigation is covered well on this forum - generally it's how it affects others rather than yourself, so line up the facts of others who will be affected (elderly relatives you drive etc.). then appear suitably remorsefull before the bench. Also make them aware that with 5 points on licence you understand you have no further room for error.

that's my view anyway - others may disagree

good luck too

jobo
the last two posters are missing the point, there is no mechaism for a hardship argument to reduce the points and the op want a ban, so you cant undue hardship your way into a ban ???????????????

what he need to do is throw himself on there mercy and explain the conseqences and ask that they do either one or the other of his prefered options
Poppet23
Thanks everyone for your feedback; I do realise since revisiting the area that it is well highlighted I just missed it on the day. I am not going to bore the magistrate with there being a lot of my mind that day, as I realise this is my problem, but does at least explain to me why I missed the signage. I certainly felt that it leading into widened road it would not have been 30 but hey ho. I think the feedback about trying to go for 5 points rather than disqualification is good but am still open to other opinions. I do have a child minding job during my breaks from Uni but looking at what you guys have said so far am rather sceptical as to whether this would be seen as mitigating circumstances - the last thing I want to do is not tell the truth. I am due to graduate in August and for all I know having a valid license could become essential for whatever job I secure.
jobo
your getting draged off topic,

you case is,,, young person of good charector, engaged in a course of study and working part time to fund uni course, has very stupidly committed a speeding offebnce, your very very ashamed and realise you should be punished, however the revokation will seriously effect your completing your couse, therefore you respectfull ask the court to either give only 5 points or if the court feels its apropriate, to give a short ban, instead of 6 points
andy_foster
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 28 Feb 2011 - 16:35) *
the last two posters are missing the point, there is no mechaism for a hardship argument to reduce the points and the op want a ban, so you cant undue hardship your way into a ban ???????????????


The mandatory endorsement is 3-6 points or a ban. The OP currently has 0 points. We are not talking about someone with 3 points facing a mandatory endorsement which must result in 6 points unless banned outright.

The magistrates' sentencing guidelines suggest where within the mandatory range, the endorsement should fall, and mitigation can be a factor. If the bench are minded not to see the OP have his licence revoked, they can give him 5 points (or 3 or 4), or a short ban.
Poppet23
Thank you to everyone that has replied - I will let you know how it goes next week
Logician
QUOTE (Poppet23 @ Mon, 28 Feb 2011 - 15:47) *
Yep my mum named me as driver which was correct. Lots of people have been done in the same spot; have researched this on the net so therefore I will not get away with saying the signage was not clear - it just wasn't clear to me. I have been reading a lot, today, about licenses being revoked automatically at six points and wondered if I go to court and plead my case i.e. be really apologetic and explain that not having a license will limit me working in Somerset during my breaks from University whether I could get disqualified instead - what are your thoughts?


OK, even if you cannot say that the signs are not clear, you can still say that you have found that many other people have been done there, so it appears that the road layout is leading people to believe the limit is more than it is. This is of course no excuse, a driver should be aware of the limit at all times, however this is your one and only indiscretion in your first period of driving, losing your licence through revocation would be a very harsh punishment for your solitary mistake, etc etc as others have said.

(By the way, quite off-topic but a useful tip when applying for jobs where grumpy old chaps complain about students being quite unable to spell these days, words like licence/license, practise/practice where the noun has a "c" and the verb has a "s" can be difficult to distinquish. Think of advise and advice which are pronounced differently, and you can always work out which it should be!
CuriousOrange
Henlade was discussed extensively in another thread.

As I remember, the signage round there is all fine, and besides part of the problem with the 'I was doing 50 mph because I didn't realise it was a 30 mph' line is that the limit before, on the roundabout off the motorway, is 40 mph.

It's nothing to do with the road layout misleading people (and I've driven it more than a few times), it's that said people have only just come off the motorway and 30 mph just seems so slow.

I don't think the OP will help keep the magistrates onside if they try suggesting that signs, road layout or whatever were contributory factors.

Poppet23
Hi to all those that helped me last week; this is the result of my attendance at the magistrates court on Friday. I went down the route of being very apologetic and being honest about missing the signage and how dissapointed I am, in myself, for speeding. I also highlighted to the court that I am a full time student and use the car for my au pair job when I am back from Uni - I also got my employer to put forwards a statement saying how reliable I normally am. The court ajourned for 10 minutes and came back with a 7 day disqualification period (so no licence revokcation), a £65 fine plus costs came to £115. Needless to say when I am allowed back on the road (have advised the insurance company) I am going to be much more aware of my surrounding area in future. Again many, many thanks to all those than contributed to this thread for me.
jobo
very well done indeed, that is a GOOD result
CuriousOrange
Interesting result, in that have you any feel for whether they gave you the ban so your licence wouldn't be revoked, or they just felt that was a suitable sentence and the question of revocation never came into it?
Poppet23
When the clerk introduced the case to the magistrates she did remind them that I was a new driver and therefore six points and revokation would be applicable in this case, so they did know. As jobo, I believe, recommended (thank you very much) I did ask respectfully ask the court if they would consider slightly reducing the points or a short ban. I still cannot believe they went for the short ban; I did apologise though and did not try to give any form of excuse for what I did (because there wasn't one) and the court did remark on my honesty.
Kickaha
I would think that the OP was so relieved at such a good result that she fled the court before they could change their minds, not caring a fig as to their reasoning laugh.gif (I know I would have).

As said before, well done you got a good result.
Logician
Well done, you must have been very persuasive to get a ban of just 7 days, have you perhaps considered a legal career when you graduate?
3phase278
just a 7 day ban is a good result - nice one - I still think maybe 4 or 5 points hanging over you for next 3 years could be better for long term insurance costs, but they have decided

and also thanks for updating the thread with the outcome and detail - all to often threads die a death with no conclusion - interesting to see the outcome.

cheers
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