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ollielumley
hardly a great surprise...
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DBC
Could someone tell Mr Troy that private clamping has been banned in Scotland for nearly twenty years, and that country hasn't ground to a halt because of it. 
buttonpusher
I see the old myth about ""people parking on your drive"" has reared its head.
SchoolRunMum
In the same vein as the above, but from the government:

I think this is a blog from August (not sure?) but it seems that anti-clamping Home Office minister Lynne Featherstone hasn't got a clue as to whether PPC tickets are enforceable or not! Or am I reading her blog wrong?

I think she needs some reasoned, polite replies to put her right so the Government don't do something alarmingly stupid in the Freedom Bill about ticketing:

What IS she on about here?

QUOTE
But what to do about the owners of private land? Of course – there has to be something to take the place of wheel clamping – some deterrent to prohibit people from parking on private property. Landowners have an absolute right to protect their land from people parking on it. So – in Scotland private landowners either protected that land by a barrier method or switched to ticketing.
Ticketing is highly regulated and consumer protection legislation already applies. There is already an independent appeals process in place – and it is a good and proportionate deterrent.
QUOTE
bama
'regulated' - ar$e
Hotel Oscar 87
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 10 Oct 2010 - 01:09) *
What IS she on about here?

QUOTE
But what to do about the owners of private land? Of course – there has to be something to take the place of wheel clamping – some deterrent to prohibit people from parking on private property. Landowners have an absolute right to protect their land from people parking on it. So – in Scotland private landowners either protected that land by a barrier method or switched to ticketing.
Ticketing is highly regulated and consumer protection legislation already applies. There is already an independent appeals process in place – and it is a good and proportionate deterrent.
QUOTE

Methinks someone has supped too oft at the propaganda table. This is clear evidence of the effectiveness of the BPA's lobbying for the regulation of private parking. It might already be too late to stop this gravy train.
Bogsy
QUOTE (Hotel Oscar 87 @ Sun, 10 Oct 2010 - 20:52) *
Methinks someone has supped too oft at the propaganda table. This is clear evidence of the effectiveness of the BPA's lobbying for the regulation of private parking. It might already be too late to stop this gravy train.


Agreed.

The BPA seem to have come from no where and suddenly self appointed themselves as a regulating body and advisors to Govt. They are very dangerous to the public since they do not serve their interest and should not be trusted. I'd rather see the AA given a bigger role in advising Govt than the self serving beast that is the BPA.
andy_foster
IMHO, the biggest danger is if the government make private tickets enforceable when they outlaw clamping, as has been suggested to be the case. If they merely assume that it is then there is no reason for them to do so.
If they don't do it when they outlaw clamping, they would be very unlikely to do it later.

buttonpusher
So the best plan of attack may well be keep stum, don't wake LF up and let the clamping ban be passed without change to private parking.
mbrit79
Obvioulsy we know that back in mid August, all private clamping and towing was to be made illegal but what actual date will this come into force as i don't see it anywhere??

Just curious smile.gif
J_Edgar
A bit of an unknown, the primary legislation in way of the Freedom Bill is iirc due Feb of next year. There is then talk of the need to make regulations by SI to bring it into force.

There are concerns of delay.
strollingplayer
Hence the clampers seeking to fill their boots as quickly as they can, in the hope they can retire once the ban is confirmed.
RD400E
You could contact this MP and ask him. He was one of two that LBS threatened earlier this year..

http://www.markfrancois.com/text.aspx?id=1
Enceladus
QUOTE (RD400E @ Thu, 9 Dec 2010 - 23:03) *
You could contact this MP and ask him. He was one of two that LBS threatened earlier this year..

http://www.markfrancois.com/text.aspx?id=1


You can read about it here. http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8271655.Cl...P___s_driveway/
Gan
Anon's report of some correspondence with the Home Office suggests that this is another item on the list of broken promises.

The Bill isn't going to be on the books until the autumn of next year with the actual ban delayed for several years afterward.
JSB1
QUOTE (RD400E @ Thu, 9 Dec 2010 - 23:03) *
You could contact this MP and ask him. He was one of two that LBS threatened earlier this year..
http://www.markfrancois.com/text.aspx?id=1

I've just emailed him an invite to visit PePiPoo.
anon45
QUOTE (Gan @ Fri, 10 Dec 2010 - 00:46) *
Anon's report of some correspondence with the Home Office suggests that this is another item on the list of broken promises.

The Bill isn't going to be on the books until the autumn of next year with the actual ban delayed for several years afterward.


The Home Office told me that there would "need to be a very substantial lead-in time to give vehicle immobilisation firms time to prepare and adjust to the forthcoming ban"- no precise timescale was given, but I fear, from the tone of the reply, that several years is exactly what they have in mind (that is, if the clamping firms don't succeed in persuading the Government to drop the ban altogether, and it appears they are lobbying very hard indeed).

If you think the situation is bad now, then, if anything, it will get even worse during this 'lead-in' time as rogue clampers will have absolutely nothing to lose.

I've said it 100 times before, but we really need a case where a victim is convicted of "criminal damage" by damaging a clamp lock or breaking into a pound to retrieve an unlawfully clamped or towed vehicle and then succeeds with an appeal by case stated on the basis of their honest and indeed reasonable belief , backed by the plain wording of 5(3) as universally interpreted in all non-clamping cases, that the reputation of rogue clampers (in ignoring both CCJs and court orders for the release of towed vehicles) and great difficulty in holding the contractor (if any!) responsible means that paying and suing would simply be throwing good money after bad, leaving no realistic alternative to the use of "self-help".

jdh
Can you imagine the uproar if it went
QUOTE
The Home Office told me that there would "need to be a very substantial lead-in time to give vehicle immobilisation firms drug dealers time to prepare and adjust to the forthcoming ban"

PBC_1966
And since when does the government give two hoots about giving people time to prepare for anything else it does?

Does it announce in a budget that the massive tax hike will be in "a few years' time" to give people time to adjust finances? No - It sometimes comes into effect from "midnight tonight."

Does the government give people plenty of time when bringing in yet another petty piece of restrictive legislation? No - In many cases it doesn't even do anything to make people aware of the new law, until cops start handing out fines or some Gestapo-style "Health & Safety" inspector or similar little dictator starts throwing his weight around.
JSB1
QUOTE (jdh @ Fri, 10 Dec 2010 - 10:22) *
Can you imagine the uproar if it went
QUOTE
The Home Office told me that there would "need to be a very substantial lead-in time to give vehicle immobilisation firms drug dealers time to prepare and adjust to the forthcoming ban"

You're thereby defaming, by association, the average drug dealer, methinks. sleep.gif
Earl Purple
Could they not bring in interim legislation?

For example

1. requiring specific written permission from the landowner or lessee for a vehicle to be clamped. Not just any vehicle - the actual vehicle. So no clampers hanging around empty car parks at night when the landowners/lessees are nowhere around. And no clamping people in their own parking spaces.

2. Making it a criminal offence to clamp unlawfully, not just a civil matter. One who clamps unlawfully would have to pay a big fine and compensation to the owner of the vehicle they clamped (not just return their money).

3. Whilst the demand for clampers would go down, there will soon be a higher demand for better parking control measures, eg fitting appropriate gates. They could be training the genuine companies (if there are any) in ways to install these devices so no need for redundancies.
buttonpusher
Maybe add to that......No ppc's where a gated or keyed entrance car park. Utterly pointless money spinner.
whitewing
The simple, easy answer would to be to withdraw, or at least not renew any SIA licenses.
And while they're at it, turn over the license database to HMCE for tax investigation.

They seem to have managed without these parasites for some time in Scotland...
anon45
QUOTE (whitewing @ Wed, 15 Dec 2010 - 23:58) *
The simple, easy answer would to be to withdraw, or at least not renew any SIA licenses.
And while they're at it, turn over the license database to HMCE for tax investigation.

They seem to have managed without these parasites for some time in Scotland...


I'll be writing to my MP drawing attention to various blatant criminal offences, that these abuses have increased since August, and to full police support for these crimes, demanding that:
i) The clamping ban be expedited and come into force immediately upon receiving Royal Assent, without being subject to a 'commencement order'
ii) All SIA licences to be withdrawn in the meantime
iii) New guidance to be issued to police in the meantime so that they properly consider the possibility of blackmail and/or theft by the clamping firms and do not simply insist "it's a civil matter sir"

I would encourage other Pepipooers to do the same. smile.gif
Korting
The fact is that this government has reneged on EVERY pledge made before the General Election
anon45
QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 07:28) *
The fact is that this government has reneged on EVERY pledge made before the General Election


Not quite; they promised that taxes would go up, and have certainly delivered on that score wink.gif
Fredd
QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 07:28) *
The fact is that this government has reneged on EVERY pledge made before the General Election

Without wishing to defend this government's works, that's not entirely accurate. One that immediately comes to mind is that they did scrap ID cards.
londonliverpoolfan
Morning all. Just a quick query as I've googled it and am only getting more confused.

My Dad was clamped yesterday for leaving his car behind some shops in Borehamwood. This is private land (not council) and the clamping firm were private. He was charged £130 for his car to be released.

As I understood it I thought clamping on private land was banned on Nov 2010?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_190178
QUOTE
Private wheel clamping to be banned
  • Published: Tuesday, 17 August 2010
Wheel clamping on private land is to be banned in England and Wales. The ban, which will be introduced in the new Freedom Bill in November, will impose tough penalties on anyone who clamps a vehicle or tows it away on private land.


Wheel clamping on private land
Once the ban comes into force it will be illegal to clamp, tow away or in any way immobilise a vehicle on private land.

Anyone who clamps, immobilises or tows away a vehicle on private land without the specific legal authority to do so will face criminal charges or civil penalties.

However, the ban will only apply to private land. It will not affect local authorities’ and the police’s right to clamp vehicles.

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) will continue to clamp or tow away vehicles if the vehicle tax has not been paid.


The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) will also continue to clamp or tow away un-roadworthy vehicles to stop them being used on the road.

At the moment, if someone wants to work clamping vehicles, they must hold a frontline licence from the Security Industry Authority (SIA). This will stop once the ban comes into force.

There are currently 2,150 people who are licensed by the SIA to clamp vehicles.


However reading the latest document (updated Jan 2011) from the Citizens Advice Bureau states that clamping is still allowed as long as you have a SIA licence - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/t_whee...rivate_land.pdf

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks
Gan
The Government was very economical with the truth when it announced a clamping ban.

According to correspondence that one member has had with the Home Office, the Bill that provides for clamping to be outlawed won't get through Parliament until the end of this year.

Actually banning the practice won't take place for several years afterward to provide time for the industry to adapt. In other words don't expect it to be stopped for at least three years.

Regarding your father's situation, read some of the other threads to see the procedures for the long haul to reclaim the money - usually from the company that employed them because clampers ignore CCJs.

A couple of questions for starters :

How did he pay - possibility of chargeback if credit card ?
Did the receipt include name, signature, SIA number ? If any are missing it was automatically unlawful .
Which company ?
dave-o
Start by posting up the receipt and pics of the sign and site layout.
londonliverpoolfan
Ha, that's not so easy. My Dad is one of the least computer literate people in the world!

I've asked him if he can get someone to scan the ticket and receipt and email them to me.

He did tell me the company was PCM - Parking Control Management based in Slough, and that the clamper wasn't displaying any ID at all.
dave-o
He can take digi photos on close up mode if he prefers. Really need to see those bits first.
Gan
This company is very well known and will usually ignore any court documents and CCJs that result.

You need to find out who employed them. First stop is the land registry to identify the land owner. They will usually not employ the clamper themselves but there's a good chance that they will tell you who they employ to manage the site. This is the company that you want.

As already advised, we need to see that receipt.

Monster 900
Since the OP seems concerned about the speed (lack of) reform in this area they may also wish to contact their MP to chivvy them along a bit.
pumps100
I noticed a letter in today's Independent from the British Parking Association 'Clamping ban will be a disaster'. If anyone is interested in replying the address for emails is letters@independent.co.uk - you have to give your name and address with phone number.

Here's the letter - my reply is also copied. But if your reading this and you agree that private wheel clamping should be banned you should take action.
QUOTE
Clamping ban will be a disaster

The Coalition plans to ban clamping and towing away on private land. To the casual observer this sounds attractive, but to many law-abiding motorists, and those householders, tenants and landowners who own car parks, it is a recipe for disaster.

There will be a small percentage of drivers who continue to ignore reasonable requests not to park on private land or who will overstay their welcome. People who run car parks need to ensure that, for the benefit of all, such abuses are dealt with.

In particular, the proposal by Government to ban towing away on private land means that if someone parks, say, in front of a fire exit to a block of flats, an ambulance bay at A&E or even on your front there is nothing you can do about it if the ban becomes law. The suggestion by the Home Office Minister responsible, that the police will have powers to tow away vehicles on private land, is naive.

The problem is that the management of parking on private land is largely unregulated. The British Parking Association has long campaigned for better regulation and has put a proposal to government which would improve the way parking on private land is managed. It would protect the motorists from the excesses of some clamping operators who have for too long fuelled a sensationalist media portrayal of this activity. We call on the Government to reconsider its intention of a total ban and instead regulate this sector properly.

These provisions will be included in The Freedom Bill, to be brought forward in February. The reality is that landowners will be denied the freedom to manage their land, with the state dictating which freedoms they can have and which they can't.

Patrick Troy
Chief Executive, British Parking Association, Haywards Heath


My reply (I am Scottish)

QUOTE
Wheel clamping – Uncertainty of timescale to the ban, is the disaster

Private wheel clamping is unlawful in Scotland and has been for a number of years and based on their experience it has not been a disaster. (Clamping ban will be a disaster- Letters 25th January 2011). I am surprised at the Independent for publishing a letter which suggests that it is not a good idea to ban it – but perhaps the British Parking Association, and their members, have a commercial interest in seeing the practice/racket continue.

The Scottish legal system got it entirely correct in their judgment (Black v Carmichael) in relation to private wheel clamping -- that is, the wheel clamping of a vehicle until it is released on payment of a charge, which is not done under the authority of a statute -- amounts to extortion, and as such is accordingly criminal.

What is a disaster, is the current uncertainty of when the ban in England will come in to place. Like greedy deckchair attendants on the Titanic private wheel clampers are becoming ever more predatory than even before. Pick up any local newspaper, and you'll find many stories about private wheel clampers; additional tow charges being applied for non existent trucks, people being clamped outside their own homes, churches, on the road after being stuck in snow, and so on. They are apparently clamping with impunity.

The public do have recourse through the Courts, but private wheel clampers apparently seem to treat the court system with complete disdain, having little regard for County Court Judgments (CCJ's) held against them – one Essex firm had over 25 unsatisfied CCJ's held against them – the company ceased trading, and the motorists are left chasing ghosts (and their money).

I also have personal experience when a private clamper forced an 8 month pregnant woman in floods of tears, on a dark winters night, to walk half a mile to a cashpoint so that he could get his ill gotten gains. Not even Dick Turpin would have done that.

Yours sincerely,


Come on everybody write a letter to the paper and your MP calling for that ban on private wheel clamping to be implemented without further delay and stop the appeasement to those who who support the extortion continuing.

Regards

Ian
bama
Troy shoots !

He misses - again
sarahg1969
What a t1t. Obviously, things will be a whole lot better if you've got a clamped car in front of of fire exit or in an ambulance bay. rolleyes.gif
pumps100
QUOTE (sarahg1969 @ Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 23:07) *
What a t1t. Obviously, things will be a whole lot better if you've got a clamped car in front of of fire exit or in an ambulance bay. rolleyes.gif


Very funny - I missed that biggrin.gif
Glitch
Maybe landowners should get a fence, a gate, a padlock, or some other parking control mechanism to protect their land.

Neanderthals with wheel clamps and tow trucks is not the answer!
pumps100
While out with the dog this morning I came up with another thought about a comment I should have incorporated into the letter to the Independent. Mr Troy suggests regulation is the answer to the issue of the private wheel clamping industry. You cannot seriously expect government to regulate what is effectively racketeering. The solution is simple - ban it completely as in Scotland and the problem is resolved.

Please feel free to use any of this for any letters.

BTW was Troy a character in Fireball XL5 - or was it Stingray?

Regards

Ian
Mortimer
Troy Tempest was the captain of Stingray.
Ocelot
QUOTE (pumps100 @ Wed, 26 Jan 2011 - 12:36) *
While out with the dog this morning I came up with another thought about a comment I should have incorporated into the letter to the Independent. Mr Troy suggests regulation is the answer to the issue of the private wheel clamping industry. You cannot seriously expect government to regulate what is effectively racketeering. The solution is simple - ban it completely as in Scotland and the problem is resolved.

Please feel free to use any of this for any letters.

BTW was Troy a character in Fireball XL5 - or was it Stingray?

Regards

Ian


Stingray!
Gan
QUOTE (pumps100 @ Wed, 26 Jan 2011 - 12:36) *
While out with the dog this morning I came up with another thought about a comment I should have incorporated into the letter to the Independent. Mr Troy suggests regulation is the answer to the issue of the private wheel clamping industry. You cannot seriously expect government to regulate what is effectively racketeering. The solution is simple - ban it completely as in Scotland and the problem is resolved.

Please feel free to use any of this for any letters.

BTW was Troy a character in Fireball XL5 - or was it Stingray?

Regards

Ian


The mention of Fireball XL5 just reminded me that my first crush was a blonde puppet, although, in my defence, I was very young and Dr Venus was French.

Didn't Stingray feature the voices of Ray Barrett and Lois Maxwell (Miss Moneypenny) ?
nigel_bytes
Did Parker ever get clamped ? Maybe he'd call International Rescue laugh.gif
pumps100
QUOTE (nigel_bytes @ Wed, 26 Jan 2011 - 14:31) *
Did Parker ever get clamped ? Maybe he'd call International Rescue laugh.gif


I see my appeal for solidarity against the clamping industry has turned into something else. I started the decline so I suppose it is entirely my fault.

Nigel,

You have gone completely off topic. As most will know Parker was Lady Penelope's chauffeur and it was Thunderbirds (I think!) biggrin.gif

Regards

Ian
Gan
My former manager was nicknamed Thunderbird 1.

Whenever a situation involved the chance of overseas travel he would be the first on the scene.

Responsibility for lugging all the equipment and doing something with it was left to the poor unfortunate who had ended up as TB2 for the day.
pumps100
For the avoidance of any doubt I believe this is the Troy under discussion



Regards

Ian
roythebus
Seen in the local lonely hearts column: Thunderbirds fan seeks romance-no strings attached.
pumps100
Guess what if you google 'Patrick Troy (not Troy Tempest) and wheel clamping' you get library of press articles/real stories about wheel clamping incidents. It is a useful but sad point of reference. Troy Tempest's stock response is " Wheel clamping is a last resport....". What a lot of tosh.

Regards

Ian
JSB1

Patrick Troy, Esq.

QUOTE (pumps100 @ Wed, 26 Jan 2011 - 18:31) *
For the avoidance of any doubt I believe this is the Troy under discussion

No, the picture I provided is funnier.
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