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jackvts
Hello All i am new to this forum but am in desperate need of your help!

I received a FPN littering ticket in person from a city council worker in a city council cctv van who allegedly saw me drop an apple core from my car window (which *possibly* occured!) even though i thought due to it being biodegradable?... well he followed me till i parked up and issued me with a ticket, on the ticket he has mispelt my registration plate, is this sufficient enough to query the fine? I was informed if i pay within 10 days i have to pay £50 and increases to £75 after.. i am skint and can't pay so would be very grateful if someone could advise me what i can do, or if i should swallow my pride and pay?!

One thing i am worried about is it may be on the cctv of the van?

Many thanks

Jackvts
Ocelot
The general consensus seems to be not to pay:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=58494

Not sure whether or not that applies in this case.
The Rookie
I think this case is different as the council worker as followed the 'accused' and thus positively (I will assume) ID'd him.

What is the exact offence and did where did the core end up?

The wrong reg is not of itself any help at all unless it helps form part of a pattern of poor process by the council.

Simon
enfield freddy
did you give the counsil employee your name and address?
Gan
If he took your name and address the wrong registration isn't significant.

If he didn't and is relying on the wrong registration he's stuffed.
jackvts
the council worker took my drivers licence and confirmed my i.d and address i guess i am going to have to pay sad.gif

apparently the core ended up in the road.



and the offence is 'Littered from vehicle reg plate ********

with the reg plate spelt wrong
enfield freddy
is a cousil employee ALOWED to ask and see your d/licence , ? thought that was just for the police to "demand"?
jobo
No, but they are allowed to insist on geting your N&A, if your daft enough to give them your DL , thats your own fault


Op does it mention a specific act or just littering
jackvts
The FPN sheet has my name address where the alleged incident took place then states 'The circumstances alleged to constitute the offence are as follows -: That on the date shown above you were seen to have : (detail of offence) ]Littered from vehicle **56*** '
jobo
il have a read up on it tomorrow, they were making a habbit of charging people with the wrong offence with this sort of thing, going for disposal of controled waist and using inapropriate powers, im not saying he should have done,, but did he ask you to admit the offence and did he caution you ?
jackvts
no he didn't ask me to admit the offence but he reemed off the 'you don't have to say anything but it may harm your defence...etc'
i never admitted the offence.
jobo
wow a PACE caution, but he didnt tell you what offence youd been seen doing, other than just littering, im not holding out much hope but il have3 a dig tommorow for you
jackvts
he did say for dropping an apple core in the road in question. hope you can help me is much appreciated.
jobo
right i cant sleep, so ive been reading this,, http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/qualit.../section119.pdf

which is defras '' guidance on the regs and how the LA should enforce them,,, some of it is best practise some considerably more than that

at a quick read, and its a pig to read on line as they have done it in columbs

there are a number of potential issues you could try to embaress them with

1) they need to have a detailed policy on how they comply with the regs and you need to get a copy
2) they should have used there '' warrent card to ID themselves and there powers, you dont say if they did or not ?
3they have breeched the requirement on dealing with littering from cars, its say explicietly that they need to take notes and return to the office to look up the vrn,, in your case its seems that he decidied to follow you9 Chas4e you through the streets to deal with the matter,,, a letter asking the councils policy on chaseing alledged offenders by car to issue fpns should be intresting,,, were you feeling harressed by a closly following car i wonder ? the problem refered to many times with littering from cars, is they cant prosicute unless some dobs themself in, but that doesnt give them the option to ignore the guide provisions for iding and issueing fpns


there are alsort of potential issues with the pace statment he requiested, with out Iding the specific offence with which you were being charged and also i believe with the FPN not being offence specific, again a defra requirement, and of course if he lost sight of your car, there are id issues and considering he has the reg wrong, you have to wonder if he stopped the correct car biggrin.gif

here is an example, though not close to your case of a letter alledging failures in following defra guidance which gave a result http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=29692

il have a bit more of a dig tommorow and see if any one else has a view
jaykay

I would sit back and relax, and wait for a court summons.

In the absence of a confession I really can't see this going anywhere, confession would include paying.

Keep silent and deal with any paperwork that turns up by posting back here.
jobo
QUOTE (jaykay @ Sat, 12 Feb 2011 - 17:00) *
I would sit back and relax, and wait for a court summons.

In the absence of a confession I really can't see this going anywhere, confession would include paying.

Keep silent and deal with any paperwork that turns up by posting back here.


to be honest mate , thats not the best advice to give
Glacier2
I would agree.

Hadeon
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 11 Feb 2011 - 20:07) *
The general consensus seems to be not to pay:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=58494

Not sure whether or not that applies in this case.


With respect Ocelot, I don't believe the circumstances in that thread are comparable or applicable in this case.

In your quoted thread the Council have not issued a FPN but a dubious 'postal interview' amounting to a 'fishing' expedition as they have insufficient evidence to issue an FPN, or indeed institute court proceedings.

In this case the FPN has been issued & the OP is faced with 3 options.

1. Accept the FPN & 'pay-up'.
2. Respond, rejecting the FPN & electing a court hearing.
3. Fail to pay the FPN and to respond, in which case formal court proceedings may & probably will follow.

With options 2 & 3, if court proceedings are commenced, the OP would of course, have the benefit of having disclosed by the prosecution the exact nature & extent of the evidence against him & thus be in a position to prepare any defence to the allegation accordingly/or decide to plead 'guilty'.
Any court hearing would incur a heavier penalty, costs & a victims surcharge in the event of a 'guilty' plea or being found 'guilt'y.

If considering 2 or 3, I would personally opt for 2, but in the end it is naturally a decision for the OP to make.
jackvts
Hmm thank you for all your posts, the only factor i am worried about is if they have cctv from the van camera showing it was me.. and the officer in question did not show any form of identification when issueing me with the ticket or during PACE.. with regards to if the summons me to court won't i end up paying more if found guilty?

Should i send them a letter regarding the DEFRA guidelines as other cases have and set out all the issues wrong with what the officer carried out?

jobo
if you want to take4 it to court is up to you, but you need to write to them giving the imprestion you will

have a go at a draft and then post up for comments
peterguk
QUOTE (jackvts @ Sun, 13 Feb 2011 - 19:57) *
if the summons me to court won't i end up paying more if found guilty?


Almost certainly.
big_mac
Why not have a look around for littering convictions - you may not want to risk the possible court costs.

http://www.barnsley.gov.uk/litterers-count-cost-250111
http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/news/article/2...ty_of_littering
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