A Success Story??

Date of alleged offence  08/03/05.
39mph in a 30.
Lti20/20.
NIP/S172 issued 16/03/05.
NIP/S172 returned cw Pace complient letter as Mikas format  returned 22/03/05.

letter received dated  2445 cw 2nd NIP Dated few days latter, Stating matter still outstanding  " If you have already sent correspondence relating to this notice it is possible that the documention has not been received. However , If you have received a letter from this office in responce to an enquiry it may be that the time limit to comply with this matter has expired. This could result in the issue of a summons....  No response in 14 days ....Summons Blar Blar "


I forward  letter  30/04/05  confirming NIP cw Documentation  was duly returned via recorded post , Please confirm receipt.


Letter received a few days ago as follows:- "I refer to your recent correspondence and have received your driver admission. Please be advised your comments regarding Code C of PACE are not relevant as this only applies to people who are being held in Police custody. This File will be processed in court if necessary.
The offence may be dealt with by the attendance of a speed Choice Workshop for which the payment is £60.00. This is an alternative to a conditional offer for which the fine and three penalty points. " 14 days to respond...  Enc  long letter stating Amongst other things "at this stage you would normally be sent a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty.This gives you the option of accepting a £60.00 fixed Penalty and 3 penalty points on your driving licence, providing you do not have more than 8 points, alternatively you can elect to contest the allegation in court.However, irrespective of the number of penalty points you may currently have I am of the opinion that your attendance at a speed workshop would be beneficial and am prepared to offer this as an alterative on this occasion.On Satisfactory completion of the speed workshop the  NIP will withdrawn." goes on to state licence will NOT be endorsed...


Ok, As has been stated before on this Forum  the Camera Partnership employees watch whats going on in here and by what ive wrote above wont take a lot of working out who I am so I will be polite and show  respect . I am going to accept the day out at your pleasure and I will take on board whatever your  Driver education officer has to say but what I would respectfully ask at this stage is ( In this democratic society) Can I put my points over eg why on wiltshire motorways would one be prosecuted for travelling at say 80mph on what are our safest roads when my car could stop in half the distance at 70mph than a Morris Minor could in the 1960s when the NSL were set? Or Perhaps why PC schumacher can travel at 159mph or is this a case of speed doesnt kill......irresponsible speed kills , just as ive always believed to be the case.


Lastly,Has anyone had experience of one of these courses? if so please enlighten me what to expect


OH I nearly forgot  I wonder if I hadnt sent the pace statement  I would already have 3 points on my licence by now, therefore Thankyou Mika and all the other guys on this site.............. Will be a fully paid up member tomorrow.

I wonder. 39 in a 30 does sound high to be given one.
Also, £60 seems cheaper than most.

AND is that correct that PACE ONLY  applies to people who are held in police custody? Reading the case law on this site seems to contradict that statement.

CODE OF PRACTICE FOR THE DETENTION,TREATMENT AND
QUESTIONING OF PERSONS BY POLICE OFFICERS[color=darkred][/color] (my italics). Follow this:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/pacecodec.pdf

More proof that it's the money they want.  By submitting a PACE statement, you've probably been marked as a troublemaker.  By offering you this 'get out', they're still grabbing at least some cash.

Mudmover, as requested:-

Well I thought I would take this opportunity to update you all on my visit to the speed workshop as some may (as I was prior) be wondering what to expect

To be fair it was not as draconian as I had expected. The two instructors were polite and not at all what id expected. One was an ex ambulance guy and the other a driving instructor. We were offered drinks on arrival and all given some of those sticky labels with our names on. A pretty average cross section of Joe public, old, young, male, female suited gents, lad in jeans.

We were all asked how we felt about being caught speeding and our opinions on speed cameras etc, one guy stated he now spent considerable time concentrating on looking out for speed cameras and watching his Speedo rather than the road. I had initially been concerned I would have been treated like a kid at school not being able to voice my own views on speed cameras etc but again to be fair I was allowed to have my say.

The instructors made some interesting points about such things as impact on the human body at different speeds, the amount of blood loss the body can sustain. We were shown various slides and videos on hazard awareness similar to the driving tests of today and asked to identify the hazards, all pretty basic common since really although I had to laugh at some of the statements made by one guy (how he ever passed his test god knows, he even thought   the national speed limit sign was a no entry sign). No one was picked on to give compulsory answers so don’t worry too much about that as you can keep your head down if you’re the shy type.

Well your all thinking what spanners did I thought in the workings, well for a starters I stated I was of the firm believe that speed in its self does not kill- inappropriate speed kills and that driving down a 30mph dual carriage way which was 40mph up until a year ago at 39mph, does not warrant a £60 squid fine and three points given the driving conditions and that’s not to imply I am a speed freak as Im very careful driving passed parked cars out side schools etc at 20-25 mph just in case kids decide to jump out in front of you…..expecting to be shot down in flames with some DFT figures ….my point was took on board. Then I stated that the forgoing discussions had been very informative but Have issue with the implementation and use of cameras in that a government sponsored study had shown the use of traffic calming measures to be just as effective as cameras…….no reply to that one. I also popped in the one about Cumbria’s road deaths increasing since the implementation of speed cameras yet little old Durham with there single cam had achieved lower fatalities….again not much of a reply to that one. Then I brought up the one about the use of cameras on the M4 and how the partnerships had justified there decision to site cameras on the M4 yet this despite only 14% of incidents being attributable to speed and how on earth can a guy falling from a bridge be included in the figures……Got em again


Well as you can see you can have your say but be warned don’t go over the top and be rude as you’ll be asked to leave and your case will be referred back to the scamerati. One thing for sure I did take on board what they said and with drivers who don’t know the difference between no entry and NSL signs it does make you wonder BUT having your two peneth worth is better than 3 points.

Regards Tinbasher

did you take a pepipoo mug for your tea

Sounds good, I think the course content must vary by region because they are subcontracted out to a private company and presumably the SCP's must take varying levels of interest in how it is run.

I have read some stories about courses where basically anybody displaying "anti" attitude was immediately threatened with being thrown out, not at all as you mention.

Gareth

I think if one was to get a bit mouthy then undoubtly they would throw you out but I would have loved to have took a pepipoo mug.''
      On further reflection I recall stating that when the figures were collated for breaking speeds this was carried out on a 1965 Ford Anglia and that any decent car of today complete with ABS,large efficient Disc brakes, anti this anti that would basically wipe the floor with those yesteryear figures to which the instructor replied not necessarily as ABS doesn't improve breaking distances  :roll:  :roll:  :lol:

You know what Pat, on further further reflection the more I think about that day out at the funny farm the more Im coming to the conclusion there are a lot of ignorant or simply forgetful drivers on our roads. When the instructors go home at night they must be pulling their hair out at some of the stupid answers they get back. Most of the drivers didnt know the speed limits on duel carriage ways vrs single carriageways,the effects of rain and snow when breaking ie allowing more distance to the car in front,the classic one about the no entry sign I have already mentioned. Most of the time the "Criminals" sat there with their mouths wide open.
        Still, this has nowt to do with SAFELY driving a few miles an hour over the speed limit in good dry conditions and getting DICK TURPINED by the SCAMERATI which is why, I guess we're all pi$$ed off with the system as it stands.

    Regards Tinbasher

Further discussion about ABS, ESP and other improvements has been split from this thread and is continued here.