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Full Version: PCN contravention 12 - Reading
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
I have tried to post this new topic with images of the PCN but not able to upload images.
I have followed the "how to scan, edit and post photos/images" steps 1,2 and 3 and all seems ok to this point.
When I get to step 4 using Tinypic I select the required image ok then press "upload now" button - then I get a message "Enter the code below to upload" with another "upload now" button - but there is no code below!
Any suggestions what the problem is? - then I may be able to post my first topic!
Dunno sorry but your thread needed bumping to help you get a response!
I seem to recall someone saying that tinypic was causing problems but not sure
Have you tried loading to imageshack ??
Neil B
As i recall the codes on TP are not below but in a box to the left. About 4 of them wit one clearly labelled 'code for forums'.

You do not upload from there. You have alteady uploaded to TP. You simply C&P the code and paste it diectly into a response post here.
Neil B
I just used tinypics to upload about 6 images for my own new thread about a parking ticket in Reading.

C & P the image code to the left of your pic as Neil B says above.
Neil B
QUOTE (histman @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 15:09) *
"Enter the code below to upload" with another "upload now" button - but there is no code below!

Ah! I think you mean the 'wobbly words' used to make sure internet 'bots' don't hijack. You ahve to type them in if you can read them - case sensitive -- before hitting upload now. Then it gives you the table of caodes you need.

It really is the simplest site to use IME.

the wobbly words can get blocked by various ad blocking type software though
First of all thanks to all who replied with help - the problem seems to have been that I had not registered with tinypic - although it says you don't have to register unless you want to use extra features. Anyway, now I have registered and all the bits you mentioned in your replies appeared.

I have pasted the IMG addresses for the PCN and a couple of photos and hope they turn into pictures when I add my reply.

Could someone say if the PCN meets requirements please.

Certainly parked for 20 mins. or so in a set of bays used many times before on visits into Reading (when the sign erected on those previous visits was as shown on the 2 hour free parking sign) but apparently the Council changed the parking restrictions recently and some areas have been changed to pay & display (see other photo for new sign). The only change in the signs is the addition of the words "Pay at machine" and "Display ticket" - the ticket machine is on a wall further along the street. Is this sufficient legal notice of a change to the restrictions by the Council or do they work on the basis that a similar sign will go unnoticed and therefore catch more people who don't realise there is a change, i.e. more revenue for the Council.
PCN was attached to car.

The penalty quoted on the PCN is £70 (£35 for quick payment) - I thought that it was £60 (£35) outside London for this minor first level offence - is this sufficient to invalidate the PCN?

First appeal against the PCN (on grounds of poor signage/notice of change, genuine mistake, first time offender, etc) turned down by Council - looks like a standard reply as it says your reasons carefully considered etc, etc but no ref. to any of the points raised. I know from other posts that many have had this automatic response).

Is it worth going on and on what basis or if I have no case should I pay the reduced rate while I can?


Help !! No response since my last post. Is this because it needs "bumping" as mentioned on my first post by schoolrunmum - if so how do you do this?
Any help gratefully received as to whether to continue with informal representation.
Please post up your informal rep and their response.

If signs/times have been changed, there must be a valid Traffic Management Order (presumably amended) in place. Request it by pdf.
Neil B
QUOTE (Scaramouche @ Mon, 17 Jan 2011 - 23:00) *
Please post up your informal rep and their response.

I read it that he is asking if he should bother with informal challenge.

Times obscured on PCN - obviously relevant.

Don't understand connection between two signs as different zone identifier letters? Is the free parking one just posted as an example of what used to be there??

I take it you mean you failed to P&D (you have to state this basic stuff before people will take interest mate - we can't guess.

Maybe pics of the bay you parked in for compliance check.
Thanks to Scaramouche and Neil for your comments.

Yes, the second sign photo is an example of what used to be there (from a different area where regs. have not changed).

Yes, failed to P&D as unaware of changes.

Times on PCN were the same on all parts, i.e. 15:18.

I will request the TMO.

The informal rep. was handwritten and did not scan well – so here it is –

PCN number xxxxx


Dear Sir or Madam

I wish to appeal against the above Penalty Charge Notice.

I usually travel into Reading using my Senior Citizens bus pass. On Friday 31st December I made a journey to visit my mother who is terminally ill with advanced stomach cancer and is in a nursing home, Sunrise of Sonning, and so I was travelling by car. As I had something to deliver in Reading on the way there, I parked in a street where I have parked before for up to 2 hours at no charge.

I was away from my car for 20 minutes and was distressed to find, on my return, that a penalty notice had been fixed to my windscreen. It was only then that I realised that the regulations had changed and that the sign that looked the same as it always had, had been altered to include an extra line about the charge.

As an infrequent driver in Reading, I was unaware of this change and made an unintentional and genuine mistake.

I am an honest and law abiding citizen and I would be most grateful if you would rescind this penalty charge which was incurred by accident.

Yours sincerely


Here is the reply from the Council -

I will try to get a photo of the bay and post it.


Just a thought - is the 14 days to pay from the date of their letter (as they say in their letter) or 14 days from when I received it - i.e. 2 days later.
From when you received it.

I'm surprised you went with this appeal, it was never going to be successful. Council parking officers do not have hearts.
Neil B
QUOTE (histman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2011 - 16:32) *
Just a thought - is the 14 days to pay from the date of their letter (as they say in their letter) or 14 days from when I received it - i.e. 2 days later.

Exactly as they say in their letter. It is their choice. The way they have worded it actually makes it 26/1/11


QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 18 Jan 2011 - 20:04) *
QUOTE (Scaramouche @ Mon, 17 Jan 2011 - 23:00) *
Please post up your informal rep and their response.

I read it that he is asking if he should bother with informal challenge.

I read it wrong somewhere then?
The letter states "within 14 days of the date of this letter" so, as per usual criticisms of "within", when exactly do they mean? I would double-check with them. There are also a few problems re 3 (2) (b) since they seem to indicate that they will not be accepting any more informal reps. More to follow.

Scope of Part 2 and duty to notify rights to make representations and to appeal

3.—(1) Regulations 4 to 7 have effect where a penalty charge which has become payable under the General Regulations has not been paid and either—
(a)a penalty charge notice has been served by a civil enforcement officer under regulation 9 of the General Regulations, and a notice to owner served by the enforcement authority under regulation 19 of those Regulations; or
(b)a penalty charge notice has been served under regulation 10 of the General Regulations.
(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—
(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and
(b)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—
(i)those representations will be considered;
(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.


"You are therefore requested to comply with the penalty charge" Don't think that will impress an adjudicator! cool.gif

Picture of bay - all looks ok to me, I'm afraid.

Yes, I was hoping to find out if it is worth bothering with further informal appeals.

Will assume 14 day end date is 26 Jan 2011 for reduced payment.

As Dave-o says, I agree there is no doubt of the guilt of parking without paying the P&D but I was hoping the appeal on basis of first informal rep. might work (have seen others on forum where similar has been successful), despite Dave-o's comment about lack of heart (which is obviously also true as per other comments on forum!).

Also need to know if any of my other queries are worth following up -

1. Is the minor change to signs sufficient in law or should there have been specific signs advising of the change (as in changes to road layouts, speed limits etc?). Maybe the TMO (awaited) is the legal doc?

2. I read somewhere that the penalty for this offence was £60 outside London, not £70 as on the PCN, but can't find where I read it now. Would this invalidate the PCN?

I guess it's the way of the world now, but having now read many of the postings on this forum can't get my head round why we are being screwed for so much money for minor, unintentional errors which harm no one - in this case who wouldn't pay 50p to park if they knew the rules had changed, when the alternative is a fine 140 times higher!! Then when you explain your circumstances having never transgressed before, they take no notice of anything you say and send out a standard dismissive reply. No hearts, as Dave-o says. Rant over, but would appreciate any further comments on my queries, even if only for future reference.
Many thanks.

Just noticed a PCN on forum from Medway Council which shows £50 for parking offence - so are Councils able to set their own level of penalty or is it as I thought a national standard, with different level for different offences? Anyone know where these are listed?
If the sign had changed, an order must have been amended to create this. Can you take more pictures of the bay, end markings, pole signs, the lot, please? I wish to help you.
Apologies for delay - family bereavement over weekend. Because of this have been unable to follow up.
Council have said can't order TMO over phone or electronically - have to write in to request under FOI.
Have decided to give up on this one as it would be too upsetting at this time.
Thanks to all who helped with info - may still get TMO and check for any inconsistencies in the future.
Keep up the good work.
Sorry to hear about the bereavement.
A hard way to get perspective on a parking ticket.

Wen you do go for the TRO post back here first for help
as "Council have said can't order TMO over phone or electronically - have to write in to request under FOI."
is a load of absolute bollocks from the council.
I second bama's thoughts. Good luck. (Requests for a TRO do not fall under FOIR - tell them where to go.) biggrin.gif
May I add my condolances

Before you pay, may I add a thought for you.
You have already gone beyond the 14 day discount period.
If you challenge it will take a little effort on your part (and I appreciate that you may not feel up to that at moment)
But if you challenge they may mess up
And anything we can use we will.
If nothing else you will have the satisfaction of knowing that it has cost them more in the end then they have gained!

Bump the thread if you want and we'll sort out some items that could trip them.

@Bogsy....anything on uniforms on Reading
And it's a standard 3(2)b failure wot TPT keep denying....worth another shot ?
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