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julyly
Hi, hope someone can help me on that. I went to London for the first time by car last weekend. My friends just moved to there and don't know very much about parking either. I parked my car on a residential area where the signs says resident permit holders only fom Mon-Fri 8:30-6:30. That was on Sunday so I didn't display the permit. Because Monday was bank holiday we wrongly assumed I wasn't commiting any contravention for not displaying the permit. We had the visitors permit that is like a scratch card and no one of us new how to use it. I had the parking ticket at 10:53 in the morning and the authoriation for removal had been done at 12:03, but I just found out the car had gone by 4pm, time I went outside for coming home. I called the police, they gave me the phone number for that place to find out if the car had been towed away and they could not find my car on the sistem. Today I received a call from a police officer and he said my car was in Wembley car pound. I went there, paid the £250,00 fee and had my car back. I got from there a form for appealing. Do I have any grounds for appealing? Any help is much appreciated.
buttonpusher
Post up copies, all sides, of all papers rec'd and someone will be sure to assist you. See the stickies for posting.
julyly

Just posting a copy of my PCN. Thank you.
DancingDad
And the other documents please
ford poplar
esp the payment receipt from the pound.
clark_kent
I would get a copy of the TMO to make sure bank holidays are included in the permit scheme.
julyly
Sorry for taking time, been very poorly. I am adding the other documents I have. Thank you.
ford poplar
Pound receipt looks Minnie Mouse. Did releaese fee include PCN penalty payment?
dave-o
Is that all of the docs?

Can you confirm you were given no appeal documentation?
julyly
I have a removal release fee receipt, but didn't find a way to post it as it says upload failed, the file was larger than the available space. Still working out a way then I will post it. There is appeal documentation, do you want me to post that?
bama
yes - ALL the documents

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=16
Earl Purple
This is Brent Council's page about restrictions over the holiday period. You were in zone KD (Dyne Road) which is marked as restricted on bank holidays:

http://www.brent.gov.uk/parkingenf.nsf/Pages/LBB-15

Of course in my opinion it is not practical to expect drivers to be able to check on websites whether restrictions are in place and these should at least be signposted when you enter the CPZ. I am not sure though that PATAS will agree with "my opinion" on the issue so I don't know if that is a valid defence.


clark_kent
QUOTE (Earl Purple @ Thu, 30 Dec 2010 - 15:57) *
This is Brent Council's page about restrictions over the holiday period. You were in zone KD (Dyne Road) which is marked as restricted on bank holidays:

http://www.brent.gov.uk/parkingenf.nsf/Pages/LBB-15

Of course in my opinion it is not practical to expect drivers to be able to check on websites whether restrictions are in place and these should at least be signposted when you enter the CPZ. I am not sure though that PATAS will agree with "my opinion" on the issue so I don't know if that is a valid defence.



Signs that include monday also include bank holidays unless it states otherwise, assuming it was free parking would not get very far in my view.
hcandersen
QUOTE (Earl Purple @ Thu, 30 Dec 2010 - 15:57) *
This is Brent Council's page about restrictions over the holiday period. You were in zone KD (Dyne Road) which is marked as restricted on bank holidays:

http://www.brent.gov.uk/parkingenf.nsf/Pages/LBB-15

Of course in my opinion it is not practical to expect drivers to be able to check on websites whether restrictions are in place and these should at least be signposted when you enter the CPZ. I am not sure though that PATAS will agree with "my opinion" on the issue so I don't know if that is a valid defence.


It's not a legal defence unless the council's traffic order excludes Bank Hols from its scope for this CPZ, which is unlikely given c-k's research into their website.


HCA
Earl Purple
Brent's site actually stated that on 25 December no restrictions were in place at all. I wonder if that included Brentfield Road, NW10 where restrictions are "at any time".

Where you were, by the way, is not too far from the Camden/Brent border as the other side of the Kilburn High Road is Borough of Camden, and there I think bank holidays are free, so in future you may wish to park there. You could also check if the meters are in force on bank-holidays. (CPZ restrictions are not necessarily the same as metered hours).

Not that it helps this particular case.
julyly
Thank you everyone for the repaly. That is the removal release fee rceceipt. Will try to upload the appeal documents. Do I have to delete the documents I already uploaded in order to have space for more? Is there any other way? Cheers
makara
AFAIK the limit for attachments is "per post", and not "per thread"

- however I don't think you can post 2 posts (EDIT - with attachments I mean) consecutively - someone else has to post after your post - which I've now done - so you should be able to add attachments again in your next post.
julyly
Still could not upload a single page. Am I doing anything wrong?
ford poplar
Yes, you are trying to post pdf attachments rather than use TinyPics to host. See FAQs How to post pics. Scan doc, save as a .jpg file and use tinypics. Same principle.
julyly
I see now. Tried to follow all the instructions. Hope it will work now.
julyly


julyly


Appeal Documents:









julyly
I think I have posted all the documents now. What are your thoughts guys? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
julyly
Happy new year to everyone! Mine has not been so happy with all this trouble, but that is life. I still hope a good heart will come to help on that matter. I am getting a bit desperately, tried to search everywhere for an answer, but it is all too complicated for me to understand. Do you think I can try the mitigating circumstances route? I will explain that it was my first time driving in London, we had the visitor permit but didn't know how to use it, plus the bank holiday that we thought would be like a Sunday, also the hardship I am in because I had to borrow the money from my bank to get my car released. Any thoughts, please?

DancingDad
Don't send nuffink yet.
You have 28 days from the release of your car to send representations to the council and then another 28 days from their rejection to appeal to adjudicators.
Use the time wisely, sending off a hurried challenge in a rush will not make it happen any faster and will make rejection by both council and adjudicators easier.
You have nothing to lose by being patient and letting the experts sort out decent appeal points for you.

Looking over the documents I'm seeing the date of the PCN but not of the receipt nor any of the reps paperwork.
Have you scrubbed it off ???
julyly
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 1 Jan 2011 - 21:43) *
Don't send nuffink yet.
You have 28 days from the release of your car to send representations to the council and then another 28 days from their rejection to appeal to adjudicators.
Use the time wisely, sending off a hurried challenge in a rush will not make it happen any faster and will make rejection by both council and adjudicators easier.
You have nothing to lose by being patient and letting the experts sort out decent appeal points for you.

Looking over the documents I'm seeing the date of the PCN but not of the receipt nor any of the reps paperwork.
Have you scrubbed it off ???



Thank you very much for your replay DancingDad. You are totally right, just got bit worried, but have to be patient. Your post just reassured me, thanks. About the dates, on the receipt is 28/12/10, it is faded, that is why you can't see, but there is. On the reps paperwork I didn't scrub and can't find any dates there either.
julyly
About the dates on the reps document I am not sure of that: "Please ensure your representations are received by the authority before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date that you were informed in writing of your right to make representations".
I did not get anything in writing, it was the lady at the desk of the car pound who gave me the documents. Do you think I will get anything through the post, otherwise, when it will start the 28 days?
DancingDad
The date on the receipt will be the one taken as the date you got the papers...so work out the 28 days and mark it on your calander as a drop dead date..less postage delivery time.
I'm not expert enough n the removal side to offer much but others here are...and weekends are always quiet.

While you are waiting, email the council, parking dept,
ref PCN ?????
To allow full consideration of any appeal or challenge I may make I require full disclosure of all evidence that you may rely on. This includes but is not limited to CEO notes both for the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevent traffic managment order including all amendments and schedules. As time is of the essence a prompt and full reply is required.
Yours truly
julyly
I sent an email to the council and they replied saying they will send me the documents requested within 40 days. The drop dead date for appealing is on the 23 of January less postage delivery time!
julyly
Hi all, I didn't received any documents requested from the council untill today. I really need to send my appeal form today as the drop dead is on the 23 less postage time. Do you think I could send that? :
XXXX
xxx
xx
x


13/03/2010



PCN: xxxxx (Notice Service Date xx/xx/xxxx)

VRN: XXXXXXX

Dear Sirs

I wish to appeal the above-mentioned PCN and subsequent removal charge on the following grounds:

1) That the penalty charge or other charge paid to secure the release of the vehicle exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

Prior to the removal of my vehicle a CEO served a regulation 12 PCN. Once a regulation 12 PCN is served then the law gives the recipient the statutory right to submit an informal appeal as well as a statutory 28 day period in which to pay the penalty charge should they not want to appeal informally or formally.

When I collected my vehicle, the Council insisted the penalty charge be paid immediately even though I wanted to exercise my right to either pay later within the statutory 28 day period or submit an informal appeal. I do not consider that the regulation 12 penalty charge was “payable” at the time I paid it, since I wanted to pay it at a later date. Therefore I believe the Council acted ultra vires in demanding payment there and then, contrary to what statute provides concerning a regulation 12 PCN and contrary to what the PCN advised were my legal rights.

In addition, I was given no opportunity to submit an informal appeal. Being able to submit an informal appeal following receipt of a regulation 12 PCN is a statutory right. Although I was given information on how to appeal this was only in regard to a formal appeal. There was nothing given to me that advised that any right to an informal appeal as advised by the PCN was lost or overridden. At the pound, I was given both the PCN and formal appeal documents and these items gave conflicting information as to what my legal rights were. This was prejudicial.

It should also be noted that where a regulation 12 PCN is served then statute provides that any formal appeal should be in response to receiving a Notice to Owner. The formal appeal documents given to me did not resemble a Notice to Owner and gave me fewer and differing grounds for appeal than a Notice to Owner. Although my vehicle was removed it seems irregular and unjust to give me fewer grounds and more restrictive grounds for appeal than any other situation where a regulation 12 PCN is served. I believe such unfair restrictions and limitations to be contrary to the general principles of law.


2) There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

The Notice that my vehicle has been authorised for clamping/removal attached to my vehicle by the enforcement authority states that my vehicle was illegally parked. As the PCN issued to my vehicle was issued in a Civil Enforcement Area under the Traffic Management Act 2004 as stated on the PCN, it is a matter of fact that my vehicle was not illegally parked, but may have allegedly been parked in contravention of an order. The enforcements authority’s failure to differentiate between an alleged illegal act and a contravention under decriminalised parking regulations is confusing, potentially prejudicial and a clear procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement agency.

3) There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

As dictated by the Chief Parking Adjudicator for England and Wales it is for the council to prove that the removal was proportionate and necessary. His quote to the House of Commons Transport Committee:

"Adjudicators are of the view that the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into the national legislation places a greater duty on councils to have regard to proportionality. In particular, the decision to remove a vehicle must be taken in the context of Article One of the First Protocol of the ECHR and requires the exercise of judgment. It is for the council to prove that the removal was proportionate and necessary. They need to be able to justify in every case why the issue of a PCN alone would not have achieved the desired objective (i.e. of a reasonable level of compliance with legitimate parking restrictions".

It is my contention that my vehicle was not parked in such a manner that removal in this instance was either proportionate or necessary. It is my belief that the enforcement authority cannot justify removal in this instance. Removal without justification is a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority. In the event that the enforcement authority sees fit to reject these representations I will expect them to provide a full explanation of why the removal of my vehicle was proportionate and necessary and to fully justify the need for removal with evidence in their notice of rejection.



Due to the above given representations I require you to refund both the penalty charge and removal fee forthwith, totalling a sum of £260. In the event of these representations being rejected I will have no hesitation in taking this matter to adjudication and will be requesting costs on the grounds that the enforcement authority acted unreasonably and vexatiously in not properly considering and accepting valid representations at the earliest opportunity. I will also ask that I be provided with a copy of the CEO notes relating to the ticketing, authorisation and removal of my vehicle.

Yours faithfully





XXXXXX

Any thoughts would be very appreciated.
julyly
I guess I will send that as it is, just change the date. Can I mention that I did not receive the documents requested from the council? Thank you all for the help so far.
julyly
I really need some help as the drop dead date for my appeal is on the 25 of January. I had my car towed away on a residential area because I didn't display the parking permit. My topic is here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=57765&hl=
I asked the council on the 1st of January for the CEO notes for both the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevant traffic management order including all amendments and schedules, but didn't receive it.
After some research on this site I found a appeal letter and would like to know it that can apply to my case, so I will send it today with the form:
XXXX
xxx
xx
x


21/01/2011



PCN: xxxxx (Notice Service Date xx/xx/xxxx)

VRN: XXXXXXX

Dear Sirs

I wish to appeal the above-mentioned PCN and subsequent removal charge on the following grounds:

1) That the penalty charge or other charge paid to secure the release of the vehicle exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

Prior to the removal of my vehicle a CEO served a regulation 12 PCN. Once a regulation 12 PCN is served then the law gives the recipient the statutory right to submit an informal appeal as well as a statutory 28 day period in which to pay the penalty charge should they not want to appeal informally or formally.

When I collected my vehicle, the Council insisted the penalty charge be paid immediately even though I wanted to exercise my right to either pay later within the statutory 28 day period or submit an informal appeal. I do not consider that the regulation 12 penalty charge was “payable” at the time I paid it, since I wanted to pay it at a later date. Therefore I believe the Council acted ultra vires in demanding payment there and then, contrary to what statute provides concerning a regulation 12 PCN and contrary to what the PCN advised were my legal rights.

In addition, I was given no opportunity to submit an informal appeal. Being able to submit an informal appeal following receipt of a regulation 12 PCN is a statutory right. Although I was given information on how to appeal this was only in regard to a formal appeal. There was nothing given to me that advised that any right to an informal appeal as advised by the PCN was lost or overridden. At the pound, I was given both the PCN and formal appeal documents and these items gave conflicting information as to what my legal rights were. This was prejudicial.

It should also be noted that where a regulation 12 PCN is served then statute provides that any formal appeal should be in response to receiving a Notice to Owner. The formal appeal documents given to me did not resemble a Notice to Owner and gave me fewer and differing grounds for appeal than a Notice to Owner. Although my vehicle was removed it seems irregular and unjust to give me fewer grounds and more restrictive grounds for appeal than any other situation where a regulation 12 PCN is served. I believe such unfair restrictions and limitations to be contrary to the general principles of law.


2) There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

The Notice that my vehicle has been authorised for clamping/removal attached to my vehicle by the enforcement authority states that my vehicle was illegally parked. As the PCN issued to my vehicle was issued in a Civil Enforcement Area under the Traffic Management Act 2004 as stated on the PCN, it is a matter of fact that my vehicle was not illegally parked, but may have allegedly been parked in contravention of an order. The enforcements authority’s failure to differentiate between an alleged illegal act and a contravention under decriminalised parking regulations is confusing, potentially prejudicial and a clear procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement agency.

3) There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

As dictated by the Chief Parking Adjudicator for England and Wales it is for the council to prove that the removal was proportionate and necessary. His quote to the House of Commons Transport Committee:

"Adjudicators are of the view that the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into the national legislation places a greater duty on councils to have regard to proportionality. In particular, the decision to remove a vehicle must be taken in the context of Article One of the First Protocol of the ECHR and requires the exercise of judgment. It is for the council to prove that the removal was proportionate and necessary. They need to be able to justify in every case why the issue of a PCN alone would not have achieved the desired objective (i.e. of a reasonable level of compliance with legitimate parking restrictions".

It is my contention that my vehicle was not parked in such a manner that removal in this instance was either proportionate or necessary. It is my belief that the enforcement authority cannot justify removal in this instance. Removal without justification is a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority. In the event that the enforcement authority sees fit to reject these representations I will expect them to provide a full explanation of why the removal of my vehicle was proportionate and necessary and to fully justify the need for removal with evidence in their notice of rejection.



Due to the above given representations I require you to refund both the penalty charge and removal fee forthwith, totalling a sum of £250,00. In the event of these representations being rejected I will have no hesitation in taking this matter to adjudication and will be requesting costs on the grounds that the enforcement authority acted unreasonably and vexatiously in not properly considering and accepting valid representations at the earliest opportunity. I will also ask that I be provided with a copy of the CEO notes relating to the ticketing, authorisation and removal of my vehicle.

Yours faithfully




dave-o
This needs to go in your original topic.
jamesabbott
i would def put that in. you have there response about getting back in 40 days. that is totaly unreasonable. how do they expect you to make an informed descision within 28 days with out the evidance you have asked for.

id print out your request and the reply and send them aswell.
julyly
QUOTE (jamesabbott @ Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 14:20) *
i would def put that in. you have there response about getting back in 40 days. that is totaly unreasonable. how do they expect you to make an informed descision within 28 days with out the evidance you have asked for.

id print out your request and the reply and send them aswell.



Do you think that letter apply to my case? Shall I just put a not at the end informing that i didn't receive the documents required?

I post here the email I sent with the answer from the council, I will send that as well as you suggested. Thank you.
Your message: Ref PCN Number: xxxxxxx
To allow full consideration of any appeal or challenge I may make I require full disclosure of all evidence that you may rely on. This includes but is not limited to CEO notes both for the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevent traffic managment order including all amendments and schedules. As time is of the essence a prompt and full reply is required.Yours truly


Dear Customer Thank you for your enquiry. The information you have requested is covered by The Data ProtectionAct, therefore, your email has been forwarded to Our Data Protection Officer who will contact you in due course.They will arrange for you to receive a copy of your information within 40 days of receiving your request. It is important that they guard against unauthorised people seeing information about you, so may ask youto provide some additional means of identification. If you require further assistance you can contact The Data Protectionteam directly on 020 8937 1426 or email dpo@brent.gov.uk. Alternatively you can obtain further information via the following linkhttp://www.brent.gov.uk/home.nsf/Special%20structure/LBB-27 When replying to this enquiry, pleasedo not remove the reference number. Kind regards,
Tehmeena Butt.
One Stop ServiceBrent Council.
jamesabbott
all they needed was your pcn number if they needed to know who you where for ceo notes.

and the tmo is a public document they didnt need to ask anyone what date did you send that and what date was the reply
julyly
QUOTE (jamesabbott @ Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 14:48) *
all they needed was your pcn number if they needed to know who you where for ceo notes.

and the tmo is a public document they didnt need to ask anyone what date did you send that and what date was the reply



I sent a copy of my driving license.
jamesabbott
QUOTE (julyly @ Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 14:55) *
QUOTE (jamesabbott @ Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 14:48) *
all they needed was your pcn number if they needed to know who you where for ceo notes.

and the tmo is a public document they didnt need to ask anyone what date did you send that and what date was the reply



I sent a copy of my driving license.



do you have proof you sent your driving license.

you by no means needed to send that but by doing so you had proved who you where there was no reason for the data protection team to be involved. who ever passed it on was just an idiot. was your email sent to the specific department you wanted it to be (parking enforcement) or to the general email adress for the council.

please post dates and email address used.
jamesabbott
i think something along these lines should fit in with what you have. any comments things to add/remove???


I feel I have been denied my chance for a fair appeal. On the date of ***** I emailed the following request for information and evidence.
Your message: Ref PCN Number: xxxxxxx
To allow full consideration of any appeal or challenge I may make I require full disclosure of all evidence that you may rely on. This includes but is not limited to CEO notes both for the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevent traffic managment order including all amendments and schedules. As time is of the essence a prompt and full reply is required.Yours truly
This is a reasonable request and with out this information i am unable to make a clear and informed decision. I provided my name and pcn number as proof and so it would be easy to find contravention and information i required.
I received the following response on *****

Dear Customer Thank you for your enquiry. The information you have requested is covered by The Data ProtectionAct, therefore, your email has been forwarded to Our Data Protection Officer who will contact you in due course.They will arrange for you to receive a copy of your information within 40 days of receiving your request. It is important that they guard against unauthorised people seeing information about you, so may ask youto provide some additional means of identification. If you require further assistance you can contact The Data Protectionteam directly on 020 8937 1426 or email dpo@brent.gov.uk. Alternatively you can obtain further information via the following linkhttp://www.brent.gov.uk/home.nsf/Special%20structure/LBB-27 When replying to this enquiry, pleasedo not remove the reference number. Kind regards,
Tehmeena Butt.
One Stop ServiceBrent Council.

Firstly i would like to ask when a TMO became covered under the data protection act? As far as i am aware this is a public document and as a council you have no right to refuse or require any information in the request of such a document.

As i had sent my details along with pcn number you already had the information needed to be able to supply me with the information i requested. What additional information is needed in the request of CEO notes and photographic evidence?

As you are aware representations have to be made in a strict time scale. I have 28 days to make representation. I do not see how a council could defend answering the request for information for a PCN after 28 days is fair. answering it after 28 days is a clear procedural impropriety. It totally fetters my rights to a fair appeal, and could rightly be defined as withholding evidence. To say i should expect a reply for the data protection team within 40 days is unacceptable.
julyly
Yes, i have the proof that I sent a copy of my driving on my email.


I sent to: Parking Department PCN -‏Brent Council One Stop Service (customer.services@brent.gov.uk)
Date:01/01/2011 and received acknowledgement of enquire on the same day.



That was the email I received on 04/01/2011:

Thank you for your below request for information. As this is a request for information about yourself you will need to provide proof of your identity before your requests can be processed.
The easiest way to do this is to scan and email me a copy of the relevant page of your passport.



Kind regards
Stephen Williams
for Brent ITU

349-357 High Road
Wembley
Middlesex
HA9 6BZ

020 8937 1426

jamesabbott
thats bollox. they cant request your passport. your passport details are highly sensitive to be advised to send them by email is ridiculous.

can you just clear up abit.

you sent email asking for ceo notes photos and tmo on 1/1/2011

recieved reply 4/01/2011

recieved email asking for pastport date?

sent email with copy of driving license date?
julyly
QUOTE (jamesabbott @ Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 15:34) *
i think something along these lines should fit in with what you have. any comments things to add/remove???


I feel I have been denied my chance for a fair appeal. On the date of ***** I emailed the following request for information and evidence.
Your message: Ref PCN Number: xxxxxxx
To allow full consideration of any appeal or challenge I may make I require full disclosure of all evidence that you may rely on. This includes but is not limited to CEO notes both for the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevent traffic managment order including all amendments and schedules. As time is of the essence a prompt and full reply is required.Yours truly
This is a reasonable request and with out this information i am unable to make a clear and informed decision. I provided my name and pcn number as proof and so it would be easy to find contravention and information i required.
I received the following response on *****

Dear Customer Thank you for your enquiry. The information you have requested is covered by The Data ProtectionAct, therefore, your email has been forwarded to Our Data Protection Officer who will contact you in due course.They will arrange for you to receive a copy of your information within 40 days of receiving your request. It is important that they guard against unauthorised people seeing information about you, so may ask youto provide some additional means of identification. If you require further assistance you can contact The Data Protectionteam directly on 020 8937 1426 or email dpo@brent.gov.uk. Alternatively you can obtain further information via the following linkhttp://www.brent.gov.uk/home.nsf/Special%20structure/LBB-27 When replying to this enquiry, pleasedo not remove the reference number. Kind regards,
Tehmeena Butt.
One Stop ServiceBrent Council.

Firstly i would like to ask when a TMO became covered under the data protection act? As far as i am aware this is a public document and as a council you have no right to refuse or require any information in the request of such a document.

As i had sent my details along with pcn number you already had the information needed to be able to supply me with the information i requested. What additional information is needed in the request of CEO notes and photographic evidence?

As you are aware representations have to be made in a strict time scale. I have 28 days to make representation. I do not see how a council could defend answering the request for information for a PCN after 28 days is fair. answering it after 28 days is a clear procedural impropriety. It totally fetters my rights to a fair appeal, and could rightly be defined as withholding evidence. To say i should expect a reply for the data protection team within 40 days is unacceptable.


Gosh, wish I had seen that before. Just came back from the post office, sent my appeal as recorded delivery. Do you think I can write that and send tomorrow, asking then to consider as part of my appeal or wait and if I get a negative result from them I do that on the next appeal?

QUOTE (jamesabbott @ Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 16:45) *
thats bollox. they cant request your passport. your passport details are highly sensitive to be advised to send them by email is ridiculous.

can you just clear up abit.

you sent email asking for ceo notes photos and tmo on 1/1/2011

recieved reply 4/01/2011

recieved email asking for pastport date?

sent email with copy of driving license date?


They send an knowlegment email on 01/01/11. Then asked me for the passport copy on 04/01/11 and I send the driving license copy on the same day.
jamesabbott
I feel I have been denied my chance for a fair appeal. On the date of ***** I emailed the following request for information and evidence.
Your message: Ref PCN Number: xxxxxxx
To allow full consideration of any appeal or challenge I may make I require full disclosure of all evidence that you may rely on. This includes but is not limited to CEO notes both for the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevent traffic managment order including all amendments and schedules. As time is of the essence a prompt and full reply is required.Yours truly
This is a reasonable request and with out this information i am unable to make a clear and informed decision. I provided my name and pcn number as proof and so it would be easy to find contravention and information i required.
I received the following response on *****

Dear Customer Thank you for your enquiry. The information you have requested is covered by The Data ProtectionAct, therefore, your email has been forwarded to Our Data Protection Officer who will contact you in due course.They will arrange for you to receive a copy of your information within 40 days of receiving your request. It is important that they guard against unauthorised people seeing information about you, so may ask youto provide some additional means of identification. If you require further assistance you can contact The Data Protectionteam directly on 020 8937 1426 or email dpo@brent.gov.uk. Alternatively you can obtain further information via the following linkhttp://www.brent.gov.uk/home.nsf/Special%20structure/LBB-27 When replying to this enquiry, pleasedo not remove the reference number. Kind regards,
Tehmeena Butt.
One Stop ServiceBrent Council.

Firstly i would like to ask when a TMO became covered under the data protection act? As far as i am aware this is a public document and as a council you have no right to refuse or require any information in the request of such a document.

As i had sent my details along with pcn number you already had the information needed to be able to supply me with the information i requested. What additional information is needed in the request of CEO notes and photographic evidence?

As you are aware representations have to be made in a strict time scale. I have 28 days to make representation. I do not see how a council could defend answering the request for information for a PCN after 28 days is fair. answering it after 28 days is a clear procedural impropriety. It totally fetters my rights to a fair appeal, and could rightly be defined as withholding evidence. To say i should expect a reply for the data protection team within 40 days is unacceptable.

On **** I received an email from Stephen Williams
Thank you for your below request for information.
As this is a request for information about yourself you will need to provide proof of your identity before your requests can be processed.
The easiest way to do this is to scan and email me a copy of the relevant page of your passport.



Kind regards
Stephen Williams
for Brent ITU

I would like to know when it became needed for something asking for evidence about a PCN to need to supply a copy of their passport. As you are aware information on someone’s passport is highly sensitive and should never be given out willy nilly. I find it highly irresponsible to ask for such information over email.
I must also ask what information i was asking about myself. I asked for CEO notes, photographic evidence and the TMO. You had my PCN number and my details. I feel this was just an attempted to slow me down in my attempt to make an informed appeal.
As i was not willing to send my passport i emailed a copy of my driving license. This has all relevant information on it and nothing else should have been needed.
Still to this day i have not received any of the information i requested.
As you can see i have done and sent more than enough information for you to have been able to send what i requested.




keep this incase they reject (which is likely) they never accept there wrong, but atleast somethings in. now there will be more time for people to comment and add to what i have writen. you need to add dates to it and any other information i havent had available
julyly
Brilliant! Thank you for your time and your help, really appreciate it! Will post here when I get a replay from them.
bama
the DPA - utter bollocks
S.35 exemption.

And a TMO is public document available by other means ((to any interested person), no ID required !) . Which is another exemption.

Council are being utterly ridiculous. putting up barriers to you.

we should go to town on this case - and pre-empt the DNC smile.gif
jamesabbott
i think putting in a complaint about Stephen Williams, for someone working in data protection asking for you to copy then send parts of you passportover the internet is a really dumb thing to do
julyly
I would like to make a complain to the data protection. On their website their advice is:

Before you complain to us
First, tell the organisation concerned and give it an opportunity to put things right. Many data protection problems can be solved quickly without us getting involved. You can call our helpline on 0303 123 1113 for advice to help you to solve the problem.
What happens if I cannot solve the problem myself?
If you have contacted the organisation about the problem but have been unable to solve it, we may be able to help.

Is it best to wait for them to reject my appeal and them make a complain to Stephen Willians about him asking for the copy of my passport? Or can I send it now?
That could be:

Stephen Williams
for Brent ITU

I would like to know when it became needed for something asking for evidence about a PCN to need to supply a copy of their passport. As you are aware information on someone’s passport is highly sensitive and should never be given out willy nilly. I find it highly irresponsible to ask for such information over email.
I must also ask what information i was asking about myself. I asked for CEO notes, photographic evidence and the TMO. You had my PCN number and my details. I feel this was just an attempted to slow me down in my attempt to make an informed appeal.
As i was not willing to send my passport i emailed a copy of my driving license. This has all relevant information on it and nothing else should have been needed.
Still to this day i have not received any of the information i requested.
As you can see i have done and sent more than enough information for you to have been able to send what i requested.

jamesabbott
i wouldnt use the text you want in your appeal. but we can easily write something up like that. we do need to know why they are asking for it. was it this person you sent a copy of your driving licence, if it was then you would of expected a reply saying that it was enough and heres what you asked for.

what date did you send the copy of your driving licence and what text was with it?

this is the link to there online complaints form

http://www.brent.gov.uk/frm/FRM-475

dont do it just yet thought. hold tight
julyly
Thank you. I will hold on tight.

Copy of the emails and replays:

Parking Department PCN BTxxxxx
From: xxx@hotmail.com
Date: 01/01/2001
To: (customer.services@brent.gov.uk)


PCN Number: x

To allow full consideration of any appeal or challenge I may make I require full disclosure of all evidence that you may rely on. This includes but is not limited to CEO notes both for the PCN issue and removal, all photos and an electronic copy of the relevant traffic management order including all amendments and schedules. As time is of the essence a prompt and full reply is required.
Yours truly

Response: 01/01/2011
Acknowledgement of enquiry Reference:xxx

Dear Customer, Thank you for your enquiry. We confirm that your message has reached our service on 01 January 2011 at 23:53:41.You will receive a response within five working days.

Then on 04/01/2011 I received this:
Reference:xxx
Dear Customer Thank you for your enquiry. The information you have requested is covered by The Data ProtectionAct, therefore, your email has been forwarded to Our Data ProtectionOfficer who will contact you in due course.They will arrange for you to receive a copy of your information within40 days of receiving your request... Kind regards,Tehmeena Butt.One Stop ServiceBrent Council

On the same day, 04/01/2011 I received that:

From: DPO@brent.gov.uk
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 15:10:28 +0000
Subject: RE: Subject access request ref sar xxxx
To: xxxx@hotmail.com

Dear xxx

Thank you for our below request for information. As this is a request for information about yourself you will need to provide proof of your identity before your requests can be processed.


The easiest way to do this is to scan and email me a copy of the relevant page of your passport.

Kind regards
Stephen Williams


And replayed on the same day( 04/01/2011) to:
RE: Subject access request ref sar xxxx

4/1/2011
To: dpo@brent.gov.uk
From:@xxxxhotmail.com
Date: 04/01/2011 18:00:18
To: dpo@brent.gov.uk


Dear Stephen Williams

I am sending you a copy of my driving licence. Hope that will be ok.


Kind regards

xxxxx


Then the last communication was on the 04/01/11 when I send that:
Dear

Stephen Williams



I just read an email that Brent council send me and they said your department will send me the documents within 40 days. I am afraid I will need that before, the dead line for my appeal is on the 23th of January, less the postal delivery. Would you please help me on this matter?
Kind regards
xxxxx

That was all the communication, hope that helps.
rscott
The infamous Stephen F Williams... Take a look at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/what...w_foi_responses for examples of his previous masterpieces.

Brent decided that replies to all FOI requests from WhatDoTheyKnow would be sent password protected and the password only supplied to the requester via a different email address..

Several months and complaints to the ICO later, they changed their mind.

It would definitely be worth escalating this to the ICO as another example of Brent's idiocy.


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