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TooFast100
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2010
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M6 southbound jct 15-14, Stafford
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Hire car from dealership
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am 20 and I have been driving for between 3 to 4 years. I have no points, no convictions and three years no claims bonus. I drive a 2009 Audi A3 2.0 TDI and have done so for 1.5 years. I got a 1.8t A3 courtesy car from Audi. I had to go to Birmingham and I was running a bit late. Got on the M6 at noon, it was dry, the sun was fairly low but I thought visibility was good, with the sun shade, and there was very little traffic - so much so that I thought the motorway must have been closed before the junction somewhere. I noticed one car ahead of me and one car behind, quite a distance away, so I didn't pay much attention to it. The car continued to follow at a distance, so I slowed down, and next thing it's flashing me to pull over. They averaged me over a distance at 100.31mph. I don't deny I was speeding but I'm not 100% sure of the speed. It certainly didn't feel 100mph.

The car that pulled me over was an unmarked BMW. I was shown a still image of the car I was driving on a screen and it showed my speed below it. The passenger quickly explained how they had calculated my speed, which involved pressing a button when I pass a point, and then pressing it again when I pass another point, to calculate my average speed. I would be interested to know how accurate this is, especially as I remember the car being quite some distance behind.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:15:57 +0000

Thanks!
jobo
its as acurate as the operator ?

did you recall the name of the device? were you told ?

some of these in used are not approved and cant be used as evidence in court, we;ll they can, but not if they are challenged, however even then your not out of the woods as with two officers and a speedo they might still get a conviction

did theyt give you an fpn / OR TELL YOU YOUD BE GETTING A SUMMONS ?
TooFast100
Hi jobo,

I don't know the name and I don't think I was told. It was built into the dash, with a still image of my car and the speed on the screen, under the car. The passenger had buttons to her right next to the handbrake etc - I believe the buttons were triangle shaped.

I was told that I would be getting a summons.

Thanks
Mayhem007
The accuracy of the device is of little consequence, however the evidence is inadmissable.

Unfortunately for you, you were on a motorway so you can legitimately be prosecuted for speeding

on the opinion of 1 police officer. It is feasible that you can get away with a FPN, as long as they don't corroborate

your speed with their speedometer.

The device you are talking appears to be the Provida Police pilot. The device has been prescribed by SI2008/1332

by parliament but has not yet been approved by the secretary of state, which means the average speed measurement

from it is inadmissable due to Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 s20(4). A newtons trial would be the way forward, pleading

guilty to the alleged offence but disputing the actual speed. I am sure you will get a lot of hits with this topic.

The inadmissable argument is being processed through the high court and it is envisaged that the argument will be settled in

the next 6 or 7 weeks, apparently.
Ocelot
You are likely to get 6 points for this. At least you have held your licence for over two years, so there's no question of having to retake your test.
TooFast100
Thanks. Is there much chance of them offering a FPN even now? I spoke to CTO and they hadn't received it yet, but they said, less than 100 and they would probably issue a FPN, but as it's .31 over, they don't know what would happen. Can a FPN for 6 pts be issued?
andy_foster
When stopped for speeding, the possibilities are -

let off with a bollocking,
issued an FPN, or
reported for prosecution.
.
If you are reported for prosecution, the next you will hear is when the summons lands on your doormat. You will not be offered a fixed penalty.

N.B. Fixed penalties for speeding are still fixed at 3 points and £60

When stopped for speeding, the possibilities are -

let off with a bollocking,
issued an FPN, or
reported for prosecution.
.
If you are reported for prosecution, the next you will hear is when the summons lands on your doormat. You will not be offered a fixed penalty.

N.B. Fixed penalties for speeding are still fixed at 3 points and £60
Mayhem007
An FPN is 60 quid + 3 points so forget that for starters.

Come back to us when you have the summons and are likely

to receive more then you bargained for. Andy's duplication is deliberate.

When you receive the summons and the BiB statements do post them

you are approaching the possibility of an FPN.

You are actually now bordering on being nonchalant about this, and appear to be ignoring

the real possibility of an FPN. Well good luck to you.
TooFast100
I'm sorry but I don't think I'm being nonchalant about this. I've been worrying for the last 3 days since I got caught, and I even had problems sleeping the first night. I'm being positive and hoping for the best outcome of a bad situation. All that I know is I've been caught speeding and I've been told by CTO that I could have been issued a FPN below 100. I was doing 100.31mph, so I asked on here. Either way, thanks for your help. I will come back and post when I receive more information.
Mayhem007
QUOTE (TooFast100 @ Sun, 12 Dec 2010 - 22:03) *
I'm sorry but I don't think I'm being nonchalant about this. I've been worrying for the last 3 days since I got caught, and I even had problems sleeping the first night. I'm being positive and hoping for the best outcome of a bad situation. All that I know is I've been caught speeding and I've been told by CTO that I could have been issued a FPN below 100. I was doing 100.31mph, so I asked on here. Either way, thanks for your help. I will come back and post when I receive more information.


If you have been issued an FPN then that is a good result FPN = £60 + 3 points. Only magistrates can give you 6 points.

But take some comfort from my first post and watch this space.
TooFast100
Hi All,

I've received my summons to go to court on 3rd Feb 2011, which states that "On 08/12/2010 at Stafford in the County of Staffordshire drove a motor vehicle, namely AUDI A3 index number XXXXXXX, on a motorway, namely M6 Mototrway southbound between junctions 15 to 14, at a speeding exceeding 70 miles per hour Contrary to regulations 3 of the Motorways Traffic (Speed Limit) Regulations 1974, section 14(4) of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988." and the Contrary to the...... sentence is repeated once again, for some reason. M6 Motorway is spelt as M6 Mototrway in the list of offences, if that makes a difference.

I have the option of pleading guilty by post (does everyone get this option, or is it decided beforehand?)

Included in the traffic offence report which was completed by the PC and handed to me on 08/12/2010. Also included is the witness statement from 1 PC (there were 2 in the car) which states the following: "VASCAR READINGS: Speed 100.31mph, Distance: 1.072 miles, Time: 38.47 seconds" The witness statement also states that I was "overtaking all other vehicles, VASCAR was used by using shadows cast from overbridges as reference points, the roads were dry, traffic volume moderate and the sun shining which was very low in the sky and therefore having an effect on visibility as we were driving into the sun." I disagree with moderate traffic as I believe it was light, but that is my opinion.

There is no mention of the speed I was doing in the witness statement, other than the stated VASCAR readings. The witness statement is signed by the reporting officer and the corroborating officer. The offence listed on my plea form is: "Speeding-exceed 70 mph motorway limit-manned equipment"

Now the big problem - I won't be in the country on 3rd Feb 2011 so I won't be able to attend on that date. What shall I do? Shall I plead guilty by post? Are the VASCAR readings, using shadows cast from overbridges, where the PC has admitted low sun light is having an effect on visibility, enough evidence? The car I was driving was a courtesy car from a dealers with a different engine to my own (petrol, whereas mine is diesel, so it wasn't as loud)

I'd very much appreciate all help and advice, it's been a long wait and I'm sort of relieved it's arrived.... get it over and done with and all that... mellow.gif

If it helps, I have attended a driving course which was set up by Staffordshire council (on my request and paid for myself), which involved 2 hours driving in my own car on motorways and A roads with an instructor. I have a feedback sheet which provides positive feedback on my driving and recommends that I go for an advanced driving course with an organisation such as IAM as the instructor believes I have the right driving skills and attitude to do such a course.

Many thanks,
Mayhem007
The readings from the vascar are inadmissable, which means they cannot accurately substantiate your actual speed, however, it is enough for them to charge you successfully with speeding.

Not too sure if you have read the various posts, but there is a case going up in the Royal Courts of Justice on 20th January and hopefully the outcome of that will state once and forever that the equipment is inadmissable.

It might be advisable to wait after that date and see if it will help you in deciding what to do.
TooFast100
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 13 Jan 2011 - 21:34) *
The readings from the vascar are inadmissable, which means they cannot accurately substantiate your actual speed, however, it is enough for them to charge you successfully with speeding.

Not too sure if you have read the various posts, but there is a case going up in the Royal Courts of Justice on 20th January and hopefully the outcome of that will state once and forever that the equipment is inadmissable.

It might be advisable to wait after that date and see if it will help you in deciding what to do.


Hi Mayhem,

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard about that. The only problem is I go away for 2 weeks on 22nd Jan so it's a bit of a rush to work out what to do, especially as I won't be around for the court date.

Cheers,
Too Fast!
scottishpoet
QUOTE
They averaged me over a distance at 100.31mph. I don't deny I was speeding but I'm not 100% sure of the speed. It certainly didn't feel 100mph.


Didn't feel like 100, what did your speedometer say you were doing?
TooFast100
QUOTE (scottishpoet @ Thu, 13 Jan 2011 - 23:04) *
QUOTE
They averaged me over a distance at 100.31mph. I don't deny I was speeding but I'm not 100% sure of the speed. It certainly didn't feel 100mph.


Didn't feel like 100, what did your speedometer say you were doing?


I'm not sure. I was concentrating on the road rather than my speedo - but I remember looking and it said 90, and that's when I decided to slow down as there was a car behind for some time (albeit at quite some distance, and they turned out to be police) - but I probably came off the gas before then....
Logician
As you will not be in the country on the date they have fixed, write and tell them you have a trip arranged and request an adjournment to a later date. Ask for it to be after a certain date, the date of your return plus a couple of days or they may fix it for the day after you get back.
TooFast100
QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 14 Jan 2011 - 00:50) *
As you will not be in the country on the date they have fixed, write and tell them you have a trip arranged and request an adjournment to a later date. Ask for it to be after a certain date, the date of your return plus a couple of days or they may fix it for the day after you get back.


Thanks.





I am considering pleading guilty by post, with a very honest and apologetic letter included, since I would be required to attend if they are considering a ban so I would show my face at a later date. But right now I'd rather just get it over with. I would write that I would have liked to have attended court but I am not in the country. Should I mention that I was driving a courtesy car and not my own, so it was a moment of stupidness that will never happen again? I will post what I am sending here before I do to make sure it's ok, if that's not a problem. I just can't wait much longer because I go away in a week. If they are going to let me plead guilty by post, then I think that's what I'll do. I don't even have a suit!

Appreciate any advice, I'll write something tomorrow... I really don't know what's for the best!

Cheers,

Too Fast
Mayhem007
IMHO, regardless of whether you plead guilty you will most likely have to turn up at court if they intend to ban you, unless you have legal representation.

It is normal for the judiciary to see the white of your eyes before they pass sentence.
TooFast100
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 12:22) *
IMHO, regardless of whether you plead guilty you will most likely have to turn up at court if they intend to ban you, unless you have legal representation.

It is normal for the judiciary to see the white of your eyes before they pass sentence.


Cheers Mayhem

This is what I've wrote, with help from another post on here:

QUOTE
First and foremost, I would like to apologise for taking up the courts time due to my actions on the 8th December 2010. I would also like to apologise for not attending in person as I will not be in the UK between 22nd January and 5th February.

I would like the court to know affected I have been by this, even though I understand it is entirely of my own making. I would also like the court to know that I understand being able to drive is a privilege, not a right, and I really value my driving license.

I consider myself to be a good, safe driver and I have had no other incidents whatsoever prior to this. This incident was a one off which was totally out of character and I truly regret every moment of it. I was driving a courtesy car at the time, which I know is no excuse, and I am deeply ashamed.

I contacted Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership after this incident and enquired about participating in a driving course. I enrolled in a ‘Safer Driving Practice’ course on 10th January 2011 which involved driving my vehicle for two hours with a trainer. I found this experience to be very interesting and I have enclosed a copy of my feedback sheet. I have agreed with the trainer to sign up for an advanced driving test with an organisation such as IAM.

I am sincerely sorry and I will never allow myself to be in such a position ever again.


Does it sound ok? Can anyone think of any changes that I could make?

Cheers,
TooFAST
Mayhem007
QUOTE (TooFast100 @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 19:03) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 12:22) *
IMHO, regardless of whether you plead guilty you will most likely have to turn up at court if they intend to ban you, unless you have legal representation.

It is normal for the judiciary to see the white of your eyes before they pass sentence.


Cheers Mayhem

This is what I've wrote, with help from another post on here:

QUOTE
First and foremost, I would like to apologise for taking up the courts time due to my actions on the 8th December 2010. I would also like to apologise for not attending in person as I will not be in the UK between 22nd January and 5th February.

I would like the court to know affected I have been by this, even though I understand it is entirely of my own making. I would also like the court to know that I understand being able to drive is a privilege, not a right, and I really value my driving license.

I consider myself to be a good, safe driver and I have had no other incidents whatsoever prior to this. This incident was a one off which was totally out of character and I truly regret every moment of it. I was driving a courtesy car at the time, which I know is no excuse, and I am deeply ashamed.

I contacted Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership after this incident and enquired about participating in a driving course. I enrolled in a ‘Safer Driving Practice’ course on 10th January 2011 which involved driving my vehicle for two hours with a trainer. I found this experience to be very interesting and I have enclosed a copy of my feedback sheet. I have agreed with the trainer to sign up for an advanced driving test with an organisation such as IAM.

I am sincerely sorry and I will never allow myself to be in such a position ever again.


Does it sound ok? Can anyone think of any changes that I could make?

Cheers,
TooFAST


Whilst you might think that the lay bench will sympathetically read your letter and act accordingly, I am afraid in the true fashion of punishment it will not in any shape or form give you a lesser sentence. Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted in respect of safer driving practice will not wear.

However, all of the above would have an influence if you were able to state this in person.

Perhaps if you request an adjournment unitl you return from your travels, then you will be in a position to present mitigation personally. Its highly possible that a hearing date may be set, which will require your attendance. Unless they decide to give you points and a hefty fine.

Your letter is over the top on how remorseful you are.

1. You have apologised for their time.

2. You have apolgised for not being able to be present.

3. You have asked the court to realise how affected you are by this incident, without actually specifically mentioning the hardship.

4. You have had no prior incidents, does that mean you have never been caught before or you have never been speeding.

5. You are not a mass murderer and to profess to the bench that you truelly regret every moment of it.

6. Finding a course interesting rather than a vast improvement on your attitude to road safety is tenuous.

7. I am sincerely sorry and I will never allow myself to be in such a position ever again, oh please pass me a bucket quick.

I may come back with some more valid lines once you have had time to soak up this thread and I daresay there will be constructive criticism from others may assisst.
TooFast100
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 19:27) *
QUOTE (TooFast100 @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 19:03) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sat, 15 Jan 2011 - 12:22) *
IMHO, regardless of whether you plead guilty you will most likely have to turn up at court if they intend to ban you, unless you have legal representation.

It is normal for the judiciary to see the white of your eyes before they pass sentence.


Cheers Mayhem

This is what I've wrote, with help from another post on here:

QUOTE
First and foremost, I would like to apologise for taking up the courts time due to my actions on the 8th December 2010. I would also like to apologise for not attending in person as I will not be in the UK between 22nd January and 5th February.

I would like the court to know affected I have been by this, even though I understand it is entirely of my own making. I would also like the court to know that I understand being able to drive is a privilege, not a right, and I really value my driving license.

I consider myself to be a good, safe driver and I have had no other incidents whatsoever prior to this. This incident was a one off which was totally out of character and I truly regret every moment of it. I was driving a courtesy car at the time, which I know is no excuse, and I am deeply ashamed.

I contacted Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership after this incident and enquired about participating in a driving course. I enrolled in a ‘Safer Driving Practice’ course on 10th January 2011 which involved driving my vehicle for two hours with a trainer. I found this experience to be very interesting and I have enclosed a copy of my feedback sheet. I have agreed with the trainer to sign up for an advanced driving test with an organisation such as IAM.

I am sincerely sorry and I will never allow myself to be in such a position ever again.


Does it sound ok? Can anyone think of any changes that I could make?

Cheers,
TooFAST


Whilst you might think that the lay bench will sympathetically read your letter and act accordingly, I am afraid in the true fashion of punishment it will not in any shape or form give you a lesser sentence. Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted in respect of safer driving practice will not wear.

However, all of the above would have an influence if you were able to state this in person.

Perhaps if you request an adjournment unitl you return from your travels, then you will be in a position to present mitigation personally. Its highly possible that a hearing date may be set, which will require your attendance. Unless they decide to give you points and a hefty fine.

Your letter is over the top on how remorseful you are.

1. You have apologised for their time.

2. You have apolgised for not being able to be present.

3. You have asked the court to realise how affected you are by this incident, without actually specifically mentioning the hardship.

4. You have had no prior incidents, does that mean you have never been caught before or you have never been speeding.

5. You are not a mass murderer and to profess to the bench that you truelly regret every moment of it.

6. Finding a course interesting rather than a vast improvement on your attitude to road safety is tenuous.

7. I am sincerely sorry and I will never allow myself to be in such a position ever again, oh please pass me a bucket quick.

I may come back with some more valid lines once you have had time to soak up this thread and I daresay there will be constructive criticism from others may assisst.



Point taken. I will make some changes. I am almost certain I'm going to plead guilty by post, I don't think I will be very good at presenting mitigation personally and I could always do this if a hearing is set and they require my attendance (I think?) as surely the magistrates will be different to those who heard it the first time. This has been a difficult decision but I think it will work best for me personally. I don't have a suit, I can't get time off work and I don't think I'll be very good at it.

QUOTE
First and foremost, I would like to apologise for taking up the courts time due to my actions on the 8th December 2010 and for not attending in person as I will not be in the UK between 22nd January and 5th February.

I would like the court to know that I understand being able to drive is a privilege, not a right, and I really value my driving license. I consider myself to be a good, safe driver. This incident was a one off which was totally out of character and I truly regret every moment of it. I was driving a courtesy car at the time, which I know is no excuse, and I am deeply ashamed.

I contacted Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership after this incident and enquired about participating in a driving course. I enrolled in a ‘Safer Driving Practice’ course on 10th January 2011 which involved driving my vehicle for two hours with a trainer. I feel this experience has vastly improved my attitude towards road safety and I have enclosed a copy of my feedback sheet. I have agreed with the trainer to sign up for an advanced driving test with an organisation such as IAM.

Once again, I am sincerely sorry and I will never allow myself to be in such a position ever again.



It's quite funny because in the thread where a very similar mitigation statement was posted, 2 people replied saying "very good mitigation statement"
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